Poor Semenya

[RumNotRun]

https://news.sky.com/story/if-women-must-stop-competing-so-be-it-semenyas-rallying-cry-over-olympics-transgender-athlete-ban-13525463

He's fighting for women's dignity apparently. The article says nothing about the children he's fathered, whilst being a woman of course.

How an intersex person is raised , especially pre puberty, can be an error.

What sex you are is not a feeling.

I, like everyone else on this thread, would have utmost sympathy for him when he hit puberty and realised he wasn't a girl/everything he knew was different. However that sympathy disappeared when he , as a grown man, chose to exploit being a man in women's sport and to take medals, places and prize money that women had spent lifetimes training for.

This is from Oliver Brown in the Telegraph:
"One common misconception is that Caster Semenya, the 800 metres champion, whose victory would prove a trigger for Coe’s rules rethink, simply has abnormally high levels of testosterone. But a Court of Arbitration for Sport ruling in 2019 delivers a stark truth: that Semenya’s condition of 46XY 5-alpha reductase deficiency means the South African has the circulating testosterone of a man. The clue is in the letters XY. This helps illuminate the uproar over Khelif and Lin. Given that their chromosomes are said by the IBA to be XY, any female boxer facing them is left exposed to the full spectrum of performance disparities between the sexes. And when academic literature establishes that the average man punches 2.6 times harder than a woman, these mismatches are not just irresponsible, but potentially lethal."

What female traits does Caster have??

No breasts, no uterus, no ovaries.
Caster does have testes (from where the male level of testosterone are produced).

Male /female at its most fundamental means “is the persons body geared up to make eggs or sperm?”

I am not seeing a mixture of male and female body parts here.

His full medical history has never been disclosed, yes I agree, and it would be indeed be interesting to know exactly when it was realised that this child who was assumed to be female was not female at all. I suspect it was a lot earlier than his family, his sports coaches and his National Sports bodies that gave him financial and training support so that he could cheat internationally, would be willing to admit. However, the relevant part of Semanya’s medical history, the exact nature of his DSD which conclusively records that he is genetically male IS , as previously stated, in the public domain.

'Intersex' is a very old-fashioned term now.

It used to be common to call people who suffered from spasticity of their muscles 'spastics', for example, people with cerebral palsy. There was 'The National Spastic Society'. It is outdated now and considered unkind. The NSS is now called SCOPE to specifically remove the term 'spastic' from the name due to this change of terminology.

Intersex was revived for a political cause - to try to erode the idea that there are only two sexes and that sex is somehow incredibly complex. Articles in Nature also pushed this idea.

Biology doesn't really care for politics, though, and people who have DSDs have asked not to be called 'intersex' as they find it insulting, as it implies that they are somehow neither or between male and female. It is inaccurate.

I do find it interesting that the people I know who use 'intersex' would consider themselves to be progressive and terribly kind.

Because competing or not he's a he and I personally am sick of the attempts of gaslighting under the guise of be kind, what does it matter blah blah blah blah

Some of us are capable of fighting for more than one thing at once, and turn up to watch grassroots events etc etc.

You seem to be implying that we should let men play women's sport unless we have a wsl season ticket or somethin , which is whataboutery at its finest.

He's struggling to accept that his days of cheating in the female category are over it seems, and I can imagine this is hard for him to accept when his livelihood and profile were based on his ability previously to do so. He now needs to accept this ruling that protects women, and focus on directing his energy and mindset to upping his game and competing equally against others with his XY chromosomes.

the lady doth protests…

No body is arguing it’s not binary - we are saying there is biological variation that renders some individuals intersex and not exclusively male or female

Robert Winston is the sole authority on sex development or elite sports but yes he’s often wheeled out and misinterpreted by people who desperately need to say there is no biological variation - he actually doesn’t deny intersex Individuals exist

science it’s decided by one individual

No he doesn’t deny that some people have disorders of sexual development. But intersex is rubbish. And very very insulting to people who have DSDs

she is intersex and identifies as a women - we don’t have access to her full medical records

I've spent a quite a bit of cash buying tickets to watch women's track and field over the years - please say what the required threshold is for me to qualify for expressing an opinion online? I would hate to find out I've taken part in something I'm not eligible for. 🙄

Intersex …better said as DSD… still are male or female. Just like other humans

so they either are males with some differences in development or female … their sex is known. even if it’s not know at birth it’s known at puberty

there are nuances and if you are sexist in nature - ie supporting gender norms - then you might see a male as female but that’s your mistake

If Semenya didn't want the exact DSD that he suffers from to be in the public domain, he shouldn't have gone to court.

I'm pretty sure Prof Winston wouldn't call DSDs intersex because it is such a misleading term. You clearly don't understand the issue at hand and cling to the term like a barnacle to a rock.

We have access to the chromosome testing and the diagnosis of 5 ard. Those results were disclosed in a court case.

5ard is a dsd that only men have

Semenya is biologically male no matter how semwnya identifies

its fact not identity that matters

Nobody is denying that people with DSDs exist. Just as some people are born with other body differences. But these are differences, they do not negate the truth that for human beings the template is binary.

“Intersex is rubbish”

intersex is used by WHO and UN to recognised biological variation

DSD is more medical context - some people prefer one or the other - again not a binary outcome that all people are insulted

Intersex is misleading and inaccurate however

because they ain’t between sexes

but by using an incorrect term you can steer how people think - they might think there’s sexual ambiguity

None of that means that Caster Semenya is not male.

What is your definition of ‘intersex’. Does it cover all DSDs or a specific one(s)?

You’ve just argued the point we have been trying to make

I can't see where Viques was making the same point that you were.

Maybe you didn't explain your point very well. Perhaps you could try again?

No body is arguing it’s not binary - we are saying there is biological variation that renders some individuals intersex and not exclusively male or female

Huh? If it's binary, which you say you are not arguing, then how in the next breath can you can there's some people who aren't one sex or the other but a bit of both version? Surely by your second sentence you are claiming its not binary.

Make your mind up.

And nobody here is denying people with DSDs exist. but the term used in here is DSD not intersex.

Who are you to say when we don’t have her full medical records and probably couldn’t begin to understand it, let alone define it - she is intersex - exclusive males don’t have vaginas