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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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21
Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:33

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:30

Ah.
So not scientific, then?
That's disappointing.
I was hoping to learn something new.

We live in hope that one day finally someone will land on this board with a dissenting view AND the evidence to back it up.

One day.

Maybe!

Probably not!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:33

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:04

Yes that’s exactly the problem just saying is there sperm or eggs - for dsd there is more

not just sperm or ovaries - they could have female genitalia such as Vulva and vagina and then partially ovaries or womb and gonads

Some people have webbed toes.

Are they interduck? Beings with some human traits and some duck traits? Or are they 100% human with some malformations that give them features of ducks?

Some people have tails.

Are they intermomkey? Beings with some human traits and some monkey traits? Or are they 100% human with a feature that is unusual for humans but usual for monkeys?

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:33

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:29

No.
Their external genitalia may well look ambiguous by it'll always either be male or female when examined microscopically.

And may not match what’s inside - resulting in dsd

SternJoyousBeev2 · 28/03/2026 19:33

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:00

She has female and both male traits

What female traits does he have?

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:34

Sometimes, people say they believe things because they believe it is the 'good' thing to believe. Whether it is true doesn't actually come into it.

I have a relative who has admitted it to me - they believe X, Y and Z because they want to be a 'good person'. No thoughts that are deeper than that are involved.

Cheese55 · 28/03/2026 19:34

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:32

I don't doubt that he was scouted because he has a DSD and was told that he could qualify as a women for athletics.

I do doubt that he actually believed he was female when he was scouted.

Was he groomed into believing it , possibly?

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:34

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:33

And may not match what’s inside - resulting in dsd

FFS it'll always match what's inside!

Don't you know anything about biology?

People cannot be male and female simultaneously. It's impossible.

MarieDeGournay · 28/03/2026 19:34

MarieDeGournay · 28/03/2026 19:32

That's fair enough, thanks for saying that.
I go into things in a lot of detail, I love digging into the background of issues and eventsSmile
I freely admit that there are a lot of subjects I don't know very much about. I tend to avoid posting my opinions on them because I wouldn't be confident that I had my facts straight.

My post was in reply to your post which simply said, before it was edited
Uglydumpling·Original·Today 19:28
My knowledge is just gathered over time amd what is topically being discussed.

You added the other bit afterwards.

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:35

Cheese55 · 28/03/2026 19:34

Was he groomed into believing it , possibly?

He may have just seen it as a way out of poverty rather than actually believing it.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:38

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:34

FFS it'll always match what's inside!

Don't you know anything about biology?

People cannot be male and female simultaneously. It's impossible.

No it won’t

They can have external female genitalia and gonads inside for example

you better ring sports England and tell them you’ve solved it! They’d be mighty relieved

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:39
Over It Ugh GIF

.

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:40

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:35

He may have just seen it as a way out of poverty rather than actually believing it.

It can get blurred - you can convince yourself of anything if you need to hard enough

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:40

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:35

He may have just seen it as a way out of poverty rather than actually believing it.

I’ve definitely heard It is a possibility that the coaches and wider community may well have

its one idea amongst many

we can’t know

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 19:40

UglyDumplig, please go and do a Biology degree! or even a GCSE. You are so confused. It's frustrating to read, as someone that is scientifically educated, and we've been having to listen to this confused waffle for bloody years now!

Intersex as you call it - even though the charities representing people with DSDs have explicitly stated, multiple times, that they find it offensive and prefer DSDs - disorders of sexual development - have nothing to do with trans and are sex-specific! Even the rarest and strangest mosaicism still result in development down either one of the other my 2 available pathways - male or female.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:41

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:10

Yes and that has been remedied now but the problem or Dsd people and where they compete hasn’t been decided

Isn't it great then that this stupid distraction of trying to shoehorn biologically male people (whether culturally "intersex", males with DSDs or just plain ol' males with trans identities) into female sports is over, and sporting bodies can focus on the reality of what "intersex" people may need rather than being forced into an undefendable and unfair to women position based on ideology rather than science?

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:41

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 19:40

UglyDumplig, please go and do a Biology degree! or even a GCSE. You are so confused. It's frustrating to read, as someone that is scientifically educated, and we've been having to listen to this confused waffle for bloody years now!

Intersex as you call it - even though the charities representing people with DSDs have explicitly stated, multiple times, that they find it offensive and prefer DSDs - disorders of sexual development - have nothing to do with trans and are sex-specific! Even the rarest and strangest mosaicism still result in development down either one of the other my 2 available pathways - male or female.

Gosh it’s nothing to do with trans - hope you don’t think that - that’s what it sounds like sometimes

I don’t think gcse biology would incude complex biology

MarieDeGournay · 28/03/2026 19:42

I'm disappointed that I responded to Uglydumpling's unedited post in the spirit in which it was NOT intended, I thought it was a genuinely honest admission that it was all just opinion, and that's fair enough.
It was edited to be another just piece of baseless argumentative contradiction.

I'm off to have my tea, I wonder will we have moved on past 'it is/it isn't' b the time I come back ?🙄

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:42

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:40

It can get blurred - you can convince yourself of anything if you need to hard enough

I AM a beetle

Poor Semenya
TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:44

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:38

No it won’t

They can have external female genitalia and gonads inside for example

you better ring sports England and tell them you’ve solved it! They’d be mighty relieved

Edited

Both men and women have gonads, you know.
The women's ones are called ovaries.

So if someone has female external sex organs, she had ovaries internally.

There is no ambiguity possible. Nobody has male and female organs simultaneously. It just doesn't happen.

I don't think I need to tell Sport England this. I expect they already know.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:44

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:41

Isn't it great then that this stupid distraction of trying to shoehorn biologically male people (whether culturally "intersex", males with DSDs or just plain ol' males with trans identities) into female sports is over, and sporting bodies can focus on the reality of what "intersex" people may need rather than being forced into an undefendable and unfair to women position based on ideology rather than science?

Yes its great although they are just dsds

glad for females

viques · 28/03/2026 19:45

Cheese55 · 28/03/2026 19:23

I agree he is male but I wonder if this is what actually happened . Was he found quite young and was repeatedly told he was female by training officials. Some Olympic winners move into a training camp as teenagers. Not a normal childhood

I think a clue might have been when he didn’t start having periods or grow breasts.

None of his trainers have ever explained why, since the physical development of athletes in training is monitored very carefully, no one ever said

“Hey, this very fast running Semanya isn’t showing the normal signs of female puberty but is getting very tall and developing muscular development more in keeping with a male. Shall we arrange for further tests to make sure everything is OK physically or keep quiet and wait until after the Olympics to see just how fast they are compared to the other athletes entered in the womens middle distance races? We could also check with the National Selection Board and see if they care more for an athletes health and future reputation or shiny medals and national pride.”

Igneococcus · 28/03/2026 19:45

I'm a biologist, dp is a biologist, most of my colleagues and many of my friends are biologist and not a single one of us is confused about the binary nature of sex and where DSDs fit within it. I'm happy to talk Sport England (and even Sport Scotland and the sports bodies of the rest of the UK) through it.

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:45

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:42

I AM a beetle

I remember your band. Rather psychedelic at times, but you had a bit of success.

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:46

By trying to say intersex means that people can ignore biology basics you turn this into a transgender question

gender - things often associated with a sex but not biologically determined

if you want to keep to sex the you have to keep to sex Xx or xy

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 19:46

why would I think that when i have just written " has nothing to do with"? What do you think about CS, do you think he is male, female, or in-beween/intersex. If you think its the latter then you are wrong, and very confused. PLEASE do some proper reading about DSDs. We absolutely DO KNOW that CS is a male with 5ARD. We don't know if his children are biologically his (and who cares) but the absolutely cpuld be.

He moat probably was deliberately scouted for his DSD. Shame for him, but as soon as he realised, he should have stopped racing against females and certainly should have stopped campaigning.

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