Boxer Lin Yu-ting cleared to return after gender eligibility ruling

[Wonderknicks]

Boxer Lin Yu-ting cleared to box
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/mar/21/olympic-champion-boxer-lin-yu-ting-cleared-to-return-to-ring-after-gender-ruling?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Interesting last paragraph
Along with its appeal process, World Boxing said it offers additional analysis and evaluation for athletes with Y chromosome genetic material who wish to compete in the women’s categories, including genetic screening, hormonal profiles, anatomical examination and further evaluation of endocrine profiles by medical specialists.
Apologies if there is another thread, I couldn't see one.

Would the anatomical examination include the person's skeleton?

We are told that archaeologists can tell if a skeleton is male or female particularly from the pelvis. Is there a range here, where some pelvic shapes aren't clearly male or female, or will someone always have a clearly 'male' or 'female' pelvis? Does a dsd affect the body's skeletal development in shape (presumably it will have an effect eg on bone length)? It may not be so relevant in boxing, but the male pelvis gives definite advantage in athletics, etc.

No the wording suggests the first 'screening' test is specifically for the SRY gene which indicates the presence of a y chromosome, then if they are found to have the SRY gene they will undergo other investigations and can appeal with that information.

😡 I can't even ...where is the woman boxer's right to safety? It's not a competition, it's a woman getting assaulted by a male and in any other context he/they/whatever would be arrested

I am not criticising people who are DSD, but the process that is allowing them to compete in a contact sport against females. It's insane.

Here we have World Boxing's "mission statement". Where have we seen these words before? I presume, that inclusive, means allowing blokes to go into a ring and knock ten bells out of a woman and be cheered on whilst doing it. I used to love sports, but that love has turned very sour over the past eight years.

"To be a sustainable, inclusive and transparent international sports federation based on honesty, integrity and excellence that puts the interests of boxers first and ensures the sport of boxing remains at the heart of the Olympic movement."

worldboxing.org/

I agree.

The policy will enable males with a ‘female identity’ to be excluded.

The process of determining whether those with DSDs can compete in the female category could, in my view, legitimately include some people with a Y chromosome.

People with CAIS have testes and produce make levels of testosterone but their bodies can’t process it and they don’t therefore experience the benefits of male puberty. There isn’t sporting advantage.

If the process is allowing those whose physiology has resulted in ‘male advantage’ through, it needs to be re-examined.

Do they also have ovaries, even if under developed?

Unless they have both they can't possibly be considered female can they?

If they only have testis they maybe it should come under disability events.
But its certainly not female. And female category isn't for under developed men.

This is the point though and has been discussed on other threads.

Where is the boundary for CAIS and PAIS? This will be where the discussion has to go and transparency in the process is needed for people to be able to trust the process.

No human has ever had both testes & ovaries. It's simply not possible. For pragmatic reasons those with Swyer syndrome have an apparently female body but are classified as female even though they have XY chromosomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

I suspect that there will also start to be studies reviewing just what changes to bodies are present due to non-testosterone derived changes. Including for instance, whether male coded receptors are more sensitive to other hormones as an example, and therefore build physical advantages.

Handelsman and Tomkinson have potentially started this looking at male children and what is derived from the mini-puberty they refer to as infants and what is derived from other differences in biology etc.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?reply=151170024&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I suspect there will be quite a bit more attention paid to studying these differences now. There was discussion around whether there was a disproportionate number of CAIS athletes at Olympic levels.

Also worth remembering that each country is responsible for testing their athletes and providing results…. As we said at the time - nothing to worry about with that!!!🤯😳

My notes say that Imane Khelif has this DSD:
DSD 46 XY with a deficiency of 5-alpha-reductase hormone (alpha reductase deficiency or ARD) - XY DSD 5-ARD

So does Lin Yu-ting have a different DSD? maybe one of that tiny number of cases where the presence of a Y chromosome is not a straightforward indicator of maleness?

As Helleofabore says, this decision appears to be in line with WBs rules on testing, and does not mean necessarily mean that Khelif's test would have the same outcome.

Khelif will be a more challenging test case - there is so much other evidence that points to him being very clearly a man.
I accept that he is a man who was genuinely believed to be a girl at birth and brought up as a girl - I know that is an unpopular and minority opinion here, but anyway, what he was brought up as, or what he thinks he is is irrelevant to eligibility.

Well that makes it simple!
Testies = male
Ovaries = female

Even if the chromosomes aren't quite right or they are dysfunctional one is male one is female. If male wants to argue his don't work then he might qualify for para games but hes not female
Simple

In fairness to World Boxing, they are categorical about trans athletes being welcome to participate - but only in the category appropriate to their sex.

6. Transgender Policy:
6.1
World Boxing also wishes the sport of Boxing to be as inclusive as possible, and to encourage and provide a clear path to participation in the sport for all. World Boxing has determined that to ensure safety, competitive fairness, and equal treatment for all athletes, it is essential that strict sex based categories determined by sex at birth be maintained and enforced.
6.2
Boxers who identify as transgender are welcome to compete in the category of their birth sex in the sport of Olympic-style boxing under the same conditions applicable to all athletes in that sex, age, and weight category. All transgender boxers are responsible for complying with all World Boxing policies, rules, and all applicable Anti-Doping rules.
World-Boxing-Sex-Eligibility-PolicyFINAL20Aug25.pdf

It would be great if all sporting organisations had rules like this!

That is exactly the same DSD which Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba, Margaret Wambui, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi have, amongst others. The last two, Mboma and Masilingi share the same coach, which says to me, that athletes with these conditions are being deliberately targeted, in order to compete in the women's category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Niyonsaba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Wambui
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Mboma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Masilingi

Boxing isn't safe for anyone because it currently causes repeated concussive injuries, irrespective of the sex of the opponent which hugely increases the risk of many problems (significantly premature death through dementia, see also coroners comments on mental health re Barry McGuigan death) even if the immediate risks are less with a same sex opponent.

We know from multiple studies of footballers just heading the ball causing the same issues as boxing, that the strength of the impact causing concussive injuries doesn't matter. Many studies show the same with rugby and American football.

Until blows to the head are banned from boxing, it can never be considered to be a safe sport.

the human skull can be used to determine biological sex, particularly after puberty, with roughly 90% accuracy. Male skulls are generally larger, heavier, and more rugged, featuring prominent brow ridges and squarer jaws, while female skulls tend to be smaller, smoother, and more rounded.

Key Differences in Adult Skulls:
Brow Ridge (Glabella): Males have prominent, thick, and sloped brow ridges, whereas females have smoother, flatter, or absent ridges.
Forehead Shape: Males typically have a sloping, receding forehead, while females have a more vertical and rounded (bossing) forehead.
Eye Sockets (Orbits): Female eye sockets are generally rounder with sharper upper margins; male orbits are often squarer with blunt, rounded upper margins.
Jawbone (Mandible): Males have a square, wider chin and a more vertical jaw angle. Females have a more pointed chin and a more obtuse, sloped jaw angle.
Back of Skull (Nuchal Area): Males have a more defined, muscular, and rugged projection at the back of the head (external occipital protuberance) for muscle attachment.

Important Considerations:
Age: These distinctions are largely based on hormonal differences that develop after puberty, making it difficult to accurately sex juvenile skulls.
Method Reliability: While the pelvis is generally considered the most reliable indicator for sexing, the skull is the second most reliable, particularly when multiple features are analyzed.

That is a massive deflection, because men punch 162% harder than women, which combined with the fact that a woman's skull is thinner, means that it is extremely dangerous to have males boxing against females.
The moral aspects of boxing and safety has nothing to do with this thread.

https://x.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1392254407476142081

Two questions spring to mind. If Lin is being classified as female, precisely what critieria (tests) are being used to decide this? And is Khelif exactly the same, or is the claim that Lin is different to Khelif? But perhaps a more sensible and pragmatic view would be that, if in doubt about sporting advantage, these people with DSDs should not be allowed to compete in the female category. I realise the Guardian would think that terribly unfair.

These DSD s are so rare, and yet, what the chances that this tiny proportion of the population would contain so many world-class athletes (compared to women, that is). Baffling, isn' it?

The ‘it isn’t safe for anyone’ is no reason at all to distract from the fact that a male person with the potential to have up to 160% or more punch power than a female competitor is then punching a female person with more delicate brain fibres in the head because a policy allows it.

There needs to be transparency about exactly what has happened in that challenge to allow a male boxer to compete.

The ‘it isn’t safe for anyone’ argument is a distraction and a deflection.

I'm not saying boxing is amazing for your brain's health, it's an impact sport, but as an athlete you take risks with consent and capacity to make your own decisions; what I am saying is that a male punch is going to be much more harmful than a female's even if matched for weight/other categories being equal.

If DSD or others want to compete, fine, but make their category one for themselves, or, get in a ring/on a track with a bloke, and see how fair it is then. Oh no wait, they won't.

I hope that the additional testing/information was that this boxer has CAIS. Khelif was far more obviously male, which was, in part, why there was so much more criticism coming his way.

What would concern me would be if the argument made was never about testosterone advantage and was all about proving he’d genuinely been identified as female at birth, or something equally irrelevant. I know that would ensure transitioning males would be excluded, but would leave women no further forward with the problem of men with DSDs (and their deliberate selection by coaches looking for an easy win) which is, currently, a much larger problem.

While CAIS is supposed to ensure no testosterone advantage, there is already some evidence to suggest those with CAIS are still overrepresented in high level sports competitions.

That’s interesting.

I wonder if certain genes carried by a Y chromosome link to certain traits that link to wanting to engage in sport / competition. If there are, should this mean that all those with a Y chromosome should be excluded even if they don’t have the advantage of male puberty.

For now, I’m leaning towards a policy where those with CAIS should be able to compete in the female category because I think the category is based on physical differences and CAIS doesn’t afford the male difference /advantage.

Barry McGuigan isn't dead.

Barry McGuigan isn't dead.

I suspect she meant Ricky Hatton.

I think the thing is that there has been an effort to shut down even discussion about CAIS advantage.

As I said up thread, this result may hasten what should have been something thoroughly investigated by now since it was observed that CAIS athletes were over represented at the Olympics in female categories compared to in the general population.

I think that some prioritisation to remove male people with transgender identities from the female category first and then male with clearly observable masculinisation. Even on MN FWR we have had some attempt to stop discussion about CAIS athletes. However, maybe this will wedge this discussion open.