Enby they/them pronouns - what's the law on this?

[SirChenjins]

New person coming into my team who I think may want others to use they/them. I have a standard team signature that I don't want altered, but if my suspicions are correct and she starts bringing her whole enby self to work, where do we stand legally if I or anyone else says nope, not doing that?

I know the moral arguments on each side of the debate so don't want a rehash of the for's and against's, just want to know where I stand in law .

”Jane told me to set up the meeting. I asked who to invite and was told to invite the whole team. Jane wants to do the introduction and also field the questions at the end. I don’t think Jane has done this before, but it's good to see someone stepping up to the plate like this.”

Really not that difficult. (Although most people would probably just throw a couple of 'theys' or 'thems' in without having the vapours)

I’m totally aware - you can believe what you like but it CANNOT be used to harass others - of which it would be if you refuse to use pronouns and cause harm

There was a recent legal case (may have been GLP) that stated Taylor vs Jaguar was no longer valid following the judgment in FWS

I suspect in court re 'harassment' the most that could be offered is the Bananarama gambit. Someone used the wrong pronouns in a way that was intentionally offensive. That's not going to be easy to prove. It could probably be equally foggily accused that requiring others to jump their language through hoops for personal gratification is offensive.

This is already someone working on taking up a lot of other people's headspace and they aren't even working there yet; as an employer that would already be dinging bells. Practically, you can invite someone else to play high effort language games for you against reality and they can equally invite you to graciously accept their 'no thankyou'. And that's as far as it should go.

Realistically I'd probably advise that names replaced pronouns, but that's still an effort on the part of all to jump those thinking and speaking hoops, especially hard in speech - we've heard even many ardent allies and high level legal people who slip frequently in court, it is very hard to do and most of your workplace staff won't be Reddit soaked in activism where the language gets embedded - but I would be equally clear that if people make mistakes that isn't going to get them into any trouble, and I would expect the member of staff with the interesting pronoun choices to be as tolerant to others as they would like others to be to them. And I'd strap in because I would doubt this would be the only issue unfortunately.

Anyway, there's a whole other thread on here that will tell you that words are just words so just chill the fuck out. Or something.

Because they are not - they can fall within philosophical beliefs which then cannot be used to harass others - you need to get more familiar with equality law

definitely not how people like to wrongly shout “protected by law protected by law” - as if they are mentioned specifically

most certainly not

As in it’s a huge reach for that man to be described as “non binary” and it’s possible because the term “non binary” is basically whatever anyone wants it to mean to suit their purpose at the time.

You're assuming that refusing to use pronouns is harassment and ignoring that compelling the speech of others may also be harassment

Refusing to use chosen pronouns is harassment

You may choose to see it as so, but we've seen numerous court judgments that don't agree.

@SirChenjins

You're wise to try and establish the legal position and a good boss for trying to take into account the beliefs and preferences of all your team. I personally think that the stance you say you will be taking on pronouns - the newbie can ask, but no-one is obliged to agree - is a sensible compromise. I would strongly advise looking at the Sex Matters website or the Legal Feminist blog for actual legal advice, though - don't try and parse judgements yourself, and above all, don't rely on legal advice from non-lawyers.

Religion and belief is a protected characteristic in the same way that sexual orientation, race etc are protected characteristics and offer the same protection against discrimination.

No protected characteristic can be used as a defence against harassment

Whether correct sex pronouns are “harassment” objectively and how reasonable it is to expect people to use preferred pronouns at all times is dependent on the individual circumstances of a case. Gender critical belief is protected in law as a philosophical belief. The devil is in the detail. It certainly isn’t the case that if people are offended by the expression of that belief that means it’s automatically harassment.

Any case law to back that up

this.

I’m GC, but I would never tell someone at work that wanted to be referred to in a certain way that I wasn’t going to because it doesn’t match my beliefs. Just smile and nod, and refer to them by their name. Don’t make a big deal about it and hopefully neither will they. If they want to put they/them after their name in their email then who really cares? I think it’s nonsense but you don’t get to tell people how they should live their lives, it isn’t really any of your business.

Not quite, because it is also a generally accepted rule of grammar that 'they' can be used in the singular (albeit historically when the sex of the person in question was not known) and in those circumstances then correct grammar is 'they are' even when you know that the person (sex unknown) is singular. It's not a massive stretch to then apply this to a circumstance where the sex is known but the person in question doesn't want it highlighted...so, as ever in English, rules aren't always what they seem, or even that rigid!!

I live in Italy, where there is no dedicated neuter grammatical gender...everything (and everyone) is either masculine or feminine, leading to the odd situation whereby to describe that someone is gender neutral you need to decide whether to use the masculine or feminine...though in mixed groups you'd always use the masculine. Discuss the rights and wrongs of that...! The crux of the matter is that, once you decided which way you are going to go (masculine or feminine) then the rest of the words in the sentence follow that lead where necessary - you shouldn't flip between masculine and feminine...

This.

God this thread is wild.

Op it occurs to me to ask what you actually want? Do you want to retain your standard team email signature which currently does not include a space for pronouns? Do you want the newbie to not ask others use their chosen pronoun? Are you GC yourself and want the whole team to espouse GC views? Putting a different POV I am female from birth, identify as female and would be mad as hell if people started to refer to me as "he/him" I'd think it was taking the piss.
Personally I think saying that there is a standard team email template and it does not include pronouns is fair enough. I'd be careful about the other two though.

I reckon she might not pass the probation period @SirChenjins

Its clear harassment if employee has asked to be supported in using their preferred pronouns

philosophical beliefs are only protected when they are not harming others - that part is really clear

Exactly, you’ve got it

But not using preferred pronouns is not automatically harassement.

You would say they are going to the park. They are the manager.

This depends on whether non binary gender identity is counted as falling under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. There is no case law that I can think of that involves they/them pronoun demands.