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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

866 replies

slet · 24/02/2026 15:39

It’s interesting how this is being discussed atm. I see Ash Sarkar has framed it as an example of competing rights between disabled people and victims of racism, forgetting about intersectionality. But there is a struggle from those on the extreme left to see how women’s rights are compromised by ceding to TRAs.

not expressing myself very well but thought it had some interesting parallels with the sex and gender debate.

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OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:12

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SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:13

BlushingBrightly · 24/02/2026 22:10

Surely it's HILARIOUS?

Well, no and again you're showing yourself up - the situation we're talking about is indeed hilarious - calling e racist is just, well more than anythign lacking in evidence.

It's not funny, it has no parts of a joke in it

And - even though the intent really is to offend - I can get over it :D

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:15

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RedToothBrush · 24/02/2026 22:15

This is one of those rare situations where a middle aged white dude is more vulnerable than two black guys.

I think this is throwing a lot of people.

It's deeply unusual. It's something that I actually think is uncomfortable and is difficult to acknowledge in itself - perhaps because some people don't want to because if they do it once they fear they they've somehow betrayed their own cause, allyship or given away ground in what they believe and value. Except they haven't really.

It's goes against the current trend of acknowledging certain oppressions. Well in this case you don't get to acknowledge oppression by shaming someone who is powerless and unable to control what he's doing. That's punching down on someone in an active and visible state of crisis who is possibly showing signs of distress whilst doing it. That's not cool no matter how you feel and how valid your cause is in other circumstances. That is being part of the problem and being an oppressor in its own way. That's hard to process and reconcile. I do get that.

It doesn't do your own cause much good to act in this way.

This is why balancing rights in UK law is difficult for people to get their heads around but does make sense. No one is ultimately at the top of the tree. There are different scenarios in which one group is the most vulnerable but in another they are the problem. It's about identifying the greatest and most immediate harms and acting to limit further harms as much as possible. You can only do your best to manage a difficult situation at times. Sometimes not everyone will be happy no matter how fair you are and will backlash against it.

Tourettes sucks. Really sucks. It makes people say offensive stuff but they aren't being abusive. Your own trauma in scenarios like this is something for you to manage as best you can not to lay down on others who are already baring their own burden. They really don't need your shit and guilt trip on top of their own issues. They haven't meant any malice or hurt. If you are hurt by someone who hasn't done something deliberately you just get on with it because honestly there isn't much else you can do without actively ending up being the one who is doing active harm.

People with Tourettes can't manage and control their condition. That's really the worst bit about it.

My friend has moments where she says she is the worst person alive and that she's not worthy of love because of what she does. She feels this tremendous sense of guilt and burden. The shaming and the desire to punish her you can see and hear when you are with her. An explanation rather than apology tends to stop that. An apology isn't helpful if the next thing she says seems to contradict the apology. If you live like this all the time, apologies almost become meaningless and more about self preservation and preventing you from getting your head kicked in. You can't be sorry for your own disability without it being a form of self harm in its own way. To constantly lie prostate begging others for forgiveness isn't good for your own sense of self worth and place in the world. You feel very firmly you are at the bottom of a pile of those 'worthy of compassion'. Think about it. Think how humiliating it is.

Those asking for yet more demonstrations of remorse really really don't get what they are doing and how they are contributing to the problem that John highlights in the film in question itself.

It's jarring. It's difficult. It's not easy to deal with. Someone yelling offensive things isn't the person you naturally assume to be in a state of massive vulnerability. You perhaps aren't inclined to be nice to someone who appears to be acting in a way that's horrible and antisocial. Except it's not antisocial and abusive. That's the point. It's a loss of control and full capacity. That must be terrifying for someone to not be able to control their own body.

On a good day you can't tell. The first time I met my friend I had no idea. It was completely normal. In fact I didn't know she had Tourettes at all until I met her another time. She never told me in advance. I didn't need to be told to be fair as she was shouting obscenities all over the place and ticking wildly. That was an experience and a bit of a crazy night! She doesn't have many friends. It's hard to deal with on a bad day. Her husband is a fucking saint.

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 22:15

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 21:49

It’s so frustrating, isn’t it?

Imagine if it were a BAFTA award being given to a documentary on the grooming (child rape and torture) gangs, and on stage are some of the victims who contributed their stories.

Someone with Tourette's in the audience shouts the c-word, whore and slag.

It wouldn't be that person's fault, at all. He has no control over it. But it's still unacceptable for those on stage, who will feel shocked and humiliated in front of an audience of powerful people.

So, on balance, I would have set up a separate luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks) at the Royal Festival Hall for him and his chosen friends and family. I'd ask him who he'd like to meet and do my best to make it happen during the evening.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

I see this as the least worst option in a very difficult situation. Not segregation.

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 22:15

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To tic 'at' them there would need to be intent and there wasn't.

You might as well talk about somebody having an epileptic fit 'at' somebody.

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 22:16

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 22:06

Experiencing somebody with Tourette's live?

You still haven't explained why it is tolerable in one context, but not another.

ETA: and as far as I can see their feelings were acknowledged

Edited

Experience having the N word yelled at them onstage in a room full of their peers in front of a global audience. What are you not getting?

People can choose to be upset by the use of the word in both scenarios, neither or pick and choose, that’s their prerogative. My POV is not to use it in any context but if you think a neutral/positive use in a song is the same as what I described above, there’s no point continuing this.

Their feelings were not acknowledged by JD who released a statement 99% about himself with no direct mention of them. Their feelings certainly haven’t been acknowledged on threads like this where they’ve been told to grow up and get over it because they’re rich celebrities.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:17

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SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:19

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You have to explain what I have said that is racist and why, rather than just an opinion you don't like.

Is it racist because I like hip hop?

Is it racist because I am not so per formatively offended as you?

I am listening.

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 22:19

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 22:16

Experience having the N word yelled at them onstage in a room full of their peers in front of a global audience. What are you not getting?

People can choose to be upset by the use of the word in both scenarios, neither or pick and choose, that’s their prerogative. My POV is not to use it in any context but if you think a neutral/positive use in a song is the same as what I described above, there’s no point continuing this.

Their feelings were not acknowledged by JD who released a statement 99% about himself with no direct mention of them. Their feelings certainly haven’t been acknowledged on threads like this where they’ve been told to grow up and get over it because they’re rich celebrities.

ETA I quoted the wrong post.

BlushingBrightly · 24/02/2026 22:19

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:13

Well, no and again you're showing yourself up - the situation we're talking about is indeed hilarious - calling e racist is just, well more than anythign lacking in evidence.

It's not funny, it has no parts of a joke in it

And - even though the intent really is to offend - I can get over it :D

🤣 save the effort, this doesn't impress me!

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:20

BlushingBrightly · 24/02/2026 22:19

🤣 save the effort, this doesn't impress me!

I'm not trying to impress you, merely trying to give you enough space to explain your poorly thought out arguments, and look less silly.

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 22:20

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 22:15

Imagine if it were a BAFTA award being given to a documentary on the grooming (child rape and torture) gangs, and on stage are some of the victims who contributed their stories.

Someone with Tourette's in the audience shouts the c-word, whore and slag.

It wouldn't be that person's fault, at all. He has no control over it. But it's still unacceptable for those on stage, who will feel shocked and humiliated in front of an audience of powerful people.

So, on balance, I would have set up a separate luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks) at the Royal Festival Hall for him and his chosen friends and family. I'd ask him who he'd like to meet and do my best to make it happen during the evening.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

I see this as the least worst option in a very difficult situation. Not segregation.

But there wasn't a documentary about grooming so we don't have to imagine it. There was a film about the story of his life.

luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks)

He is not a child who deserves a lollipop.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

This is toe curling. "If he really wanted to"?

ETA - how do you imagine he should live his life? Do you think he should be gagged when he leaves the house?

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:21

DamsonGoldfinch · 24/02/2026 22:03

I have no time for anyone who uses the word triggered I’m afraid.

Interesting. How would you describe it a rape victim being sent into a flashback, or an abuse victim being caused to feel anxiety and a panic attack, or a person with autism who knows certain things will set off a meltdown?

'Triggered' is often overused, but it is an actual useful phrase for people who have PTSD or other conditions. In fact, I imagine Tourette's tics are 'triggered' more by specific situations.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 24/02/2026 22:21

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 22:08

First two, once again, could be said to anyone. Third one makes no sense for a straight man or to be said by another Brit.

We’re not talking general bad words but those that oppressed groups specifically have endured for decades if not centuries. Words that, although unintentional, could trigger deep hurt in the people that experienced it onstage that night and their feelings should be recognised.

You really are missing the point spectacularly and so many people have tried to explain to you but you are remaining willfully ignorant.

GrooveArmada · 24/02/2026 22:22

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 22:15

Imagine if it were a BAFTA award being given to a documentary on the grooming (child rape and torture) gangs, and on stage are some of the victims who contributed their stories.

Someone with Tourette's in the audience shouts the c-word, whore and slag.

It wouldn't be that person's fault, at all. He has no control over it. But it's still unacceptable for those on stage, who will feel shocked and humiliated in front of an audience of powerful people.

So, on balance, I would have set up a separate luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks) at the Royal Festival Hall for him and his chosen friends and family. I'd ask him who he'd like to meet and do my best to make it happen during the evening.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

I see this as the least worst option in a very difficult situation. Not segregation.

I can't believe how ableist this is.

Next thing, why don't we put special stamps on people with Tourette's, ya know, so "normal people" can stay miles away from them and have their feelings protected.

Christ.

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:22

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:19

You have to explain what I have said that is racist and why, rather than just an opinion you don't like.

Is it racist because I like hip hop?

Is it racist because I am not so per formatively offended as you?

I am listening.

Edited

I have explained.

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 22:22

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 22:15

Imagine if it were a BAFTA award being given to a documentary on the grooming (child rape and torture) gangs, and on stage are some of the victims who contributed their stories.

Someone with Tourette's in the audience shouts the c-word, whore and slag.

It wouldn't be that person's fault, at all. He has no control over it. But it's still unacceptable for those on stage, who will feel shocked and humiliated in front of an audience of powerful people.

So, on balance, I would have set up a separate luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks) at the Royal Festival Hall for him and his chosen friends and family. I'd ask him who he'd like to meet and do my best to make it happen during the evening.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

I see this as the least worst option in a very difficult situation. Not segregation.

You don’t need to give me an alternative scenario.

The situation would be exactly the same. A man with a disability showing symptoms of that disability.

And putting someone in a ‘luxury viewing room’ because they have a disability is segregation.

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 22:24

GrooveArmada · 24/02/2026 22:22

I can't believe how ableist this is.

Next thing, why don't we put special stamps on people with Tourette's, ya know, so "normal people" can stay miles away from them and have their feelings protected.

Christ.

Or muzzle them? They can still eat canapés if they’re small enough to fit through the wires.

FFS

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 22:24

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:22

I have explained.

no you haven't. you have just said the word racist several times without once explaining what I have done that was racist and why

You have in fact, just said some possibly racist things like white people cannot listen to hip hop and anyone who is not offended like me must be a biggot....

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:25

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Nice try, but that's a fail.

And Cypress Hill are Latino American, not black. I very much enjoy their music, but I don't say the N word. Even B-Real no longer uses it in live performances these days.

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 22:26

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 22:12

What you’re not getting is that having Tourette’s means you will involuntarily blurt out the worst possible thing you could say in any given situation.

So, when JD’s tic made him shout ‘Fuck the Queen!’ at the Queen it was because he knew that was the worst possible thing he could say in that situation.

The only relevant context here is that a man with a disability displayed symptoms of that disability. As I’ve said before, once they knew the situation, it was on MJ and the other fella to show a bit of grace.

Lol you’re literally agreeing with me but ok. He said ‘fuck you Queen’ because he was with the queen, he didn’t say it in the supermarket. He said he had a bomb because he was in an airport, he wouldn’t have said that sitting on his sofa at home. He yelled the N word because he saw two black men onstage. Unintentionally and due to his tic but let’s not pretend the people in front of him are totally irrelevant.

And of course the onus is entirely on the two black men to show grace and absolutely none on JD to recognise how they might’ve felt in that moment.

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 22:27

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 22:16

Experience having the N word yelled at them onstage in a room full of their peers in front of a global audience. What are you not getting?

People can choose to be upset by the use of the word in both scenarios, neither or pick and choose, that’s their prerogative. My POV is not to use it in any context but if you think a neutral/positive use in a song is the same as what I described above, there’s no point continuing this.

Their feelings were not acknowledged by JD who released a statement 99% about himself with no direct mention of them. Their feelings certainly haven’t been acknowledged on threads like this where they’ve been told to grow up and get over it because they’re rich celebrities.

Yes, I do think that what he said was neutral. That is the whole point of understanding his condition. There is no meaning behind the words.

I thought perhaps that you were talking about BAFTA acknowledging their feelings, but you genuinely think JD should acknowledge their feelings? If he bumped into somebody while having an epileptic fit, should he apologise afterwards?

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 22:27

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ticktickticktickBOOM · 24/02/2026 22:27

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 22:15

Imagine if it were a BAFTA award being given to a documentary on the grooming (child rape and torture) gangs, and on stage are some of the victims who contributed their stories.

Someone with Tourette's in the audience shouts the c-word, whore and slag.

It wouldn't be that person's fault, at all. He has no control over it. But it's still unacceptable for those on stage, who will feel shocked and humiliated in front of an audience of powerful people.

So, on balance, I would have set up a separate luxury viewing room (with chosen drinks and snacks) at the Royal Festival Hall for him and his chosen friends and family. I'd ask him who he'd like to meet and do my best to make it happen during the evening.

If he really wanted to be introduced to, say, Idris Elba or Princess Catherine, then they'd come and say hello in his private room, and be very thoroughly briefed and ready for the worst possible expletives.

I see this as the least worst option in a very difficult situation. Not segregation.

Ok, a bit outing but I am a victim of grooming and rape. If I were on stage in the scenario you describe I would not give a hoot if John Davidson called out cunt, whore or slag. I would totally understand.

Only people that do not understand tourettes would be offended by tourettes.

Hence the film being called I SWEAR in great big capital letters.

Oh the irony of the offended on this thread is absolutely astounding.

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