Baby born from dead donor womb transplant in UK first

[IwantToRetire]

Commisseration and support for the family of the woman who died, and happy for the new mother.

But feel sort of uneasy about this.

https://news.sky.com/story/simply-a-miracle-baby-boy-born-from-dead-donor-womb-transplant-in-uk-first-13511093

No, you consent to organs and tissue. Or opt out, as it is now.

Having a child is already described as a human right.

https://www.who.int/tools/your-life-your-health/know-your-rights/rights-across-life-phases---early-and-middle-adulthood/rights-on-having-children

I expect this was meant as 'nobody should stop people from having babies' but it can also read as people having a right to a child. Which is different.

Just to go back to some of the earlier posts which I will summarise in a way I am sure some will say isn't quite right, but here goes.

Some posted saying that it is important for them as a woman to have been pregnant, not just the experience of the pregnancy itself, but how they feel towards the child they have given birth to. (Attachment?) Wasn't sure if somehow the arguement was that to be truely a woman you have to have given birth.

Are these real feelings or just part of the social pressures on how we are told being a woman is.

But I know not all women feel this, so is supporting this is just to have a personal achievement / experience they want in their live? ie using someone else womb for personal gratification.

For instance, if in the near future it was possible to create an artificial womb, and an embryo was created using a partners sperm, would the child then delivered via an artificial womb not be as wanted by the mother (or the father)?

Do men who want children put the same value on their child being born via the woman they are in a relationship with.

What an awful post.

I really don’t get why people have a problem with this. Before I read it I thought it was maybe the dead woman’s egg/embryo and she had a genetic link to the child or something, which I can see a problem with…but this is amazing! If I could provide another woman with the an opportunity to have a child that they wouldn’t have otherwise had, and for my death not to be in vain, I would 100% want that. The woman’s family did a brave and selfless thing when they must’ve been completely grief stricken, I think it’s really admirable. People don’t get all creeped out when it’s a heart or liver transplant. What’s the difference? It’s just because it’s new and radical and people are terrified of progress.

There's nothing mentioned about womb donation.

When this happened the woman didn't even know that donation of her womb was a possibility.

Her family agreeing for her isn't enough.

They need to add this to the list on the organ donation register so women can make their own decisions.

There is nothing separating the womb from any other organ in the body.

You are aware, when consenting to organ donation, that they make take all viable organs, some, or none. You don’t get to dictate what happens after that.

People do get creeped out by organ donation in many ways. That's why rates are low and many families do not discuss and know of each other's wishes.

People are creeped out by death, illness, Healthcare etc so it is nonsense to say everyone is absolutely comfortable with organ donation.

Many people are v weird about blood donations and the rates are sometimes desperate.

It is really not hard at all to understand why involving reproductive organs and genitalia and babies in it all is emotive.

It is so much better than surrogacy, which has huge ethical issues - and you really are “using someone else’s womb for your own personal gratification”. This is not that though IMO. The person is no longer alive, their womb is useless to them and would normally “die” along with their body. If this reduces the number of surrogacies (especially surrogates in developing countries, who are often taken advantage of) then it can only be a good thing

Unfortunately this lack of choice will result in a lot more women opting out, so I'm not sure why thats a good thing?

I think they should have a specific and fully detailed list people can tick, so their families can see exactly what they were okay with donating.

But what of it hugely increases the numbers of donors from developing countries instead?

But you have no idea what conversations she had had with her family on the subject of organ donation. It could have been none or she could be like me and have made it abundantly clear to her next of kin that once she is dead any part that anyone can make use of is fair game. I've stressed to my parents then my DH and now I've also told my DC (mid/older teens) that I'm happy for anything that can help other to be used after my death.

If your loved one was in hospital with their only possible chance of survival being a lung transplant and you were lucky enough to receive a lung from a person who had just died, I think the sheer gratefulness and relief you would feel would squash any hints of being creeped out about it.

i personally think any woman who opts out on this basis is horrendously selfish.

I don’t have any problems with a woman giving birth from a transplanted womb. Why is a womb transplant any different from any other organ transplant? How amazing that an infertile woman can experience the joy of pregnancy and becoming a mother. A much better option to surrogacy.

If someone has given consent then that should be crystal clear and not, 'well, her family said she was fine with it, and we don't know how she actually felt, as womb transplant isn't listed specifically, so... I guess that'll do?'

That's not clear consent, and not good enough.

As has been explained, they consented to organ donation. This is clearly recorded on medical records.

Good lord. I'd forgotten about that. When I found out they were using skin from organ donors (decellularized human cadaveric dermis, such as AlloDerm to be precise) to make faux vaginas for trans identified men I thought at least I don't have a donor card. I'm off to opt out. At this point things seem to be heading towards commercial exploitation of dead bodies.

Ah, so, already wielding social pressure? "Woman, give all of your organs or you're selfish." How entirely expected.

I'm quite happy to be considered selfish, in that case. No skin off my nose! But it's a shame for all the people who may miss out on organs because women opt out of donating altogether. It's a bit stupid of the NHS to do that.

Yes I think if you’re willing to deny people the chance of a healthy life based on some weird misconception that you need your organs once you die, you’re selfish. I’ve never actually heard a good argument for opting out.

That just isn't the case though. Recipients of organ donation will have been worked up over a period of weeks and months and had a lot of time to discuss and prepare. It doesn't stop them having very complicated feelings about the process. Knowing someone died and you might get to live as a result is not easy. You will also be very close to be so unwell that such an operation is your only chance but may also kill you.

I've been there and had those conversations with people.

Many many potential donor families have not ever discussed donation with each other and so when something horrendous happens like a sudden brain haemorrhage or a massive car accident (the circumstances in which you can donate many organs are very limited) they don't feel able to make a decision and agree to donation. It is so much easier when there have been discussions around the dinner table and the family know what their loved one would have wanted.

Many religions and cultures are against donation, transplants, blood products etc. They struggle to accept what is medically advised when it is culturally or religiously unacceptable.

It is not easy or simple or comfortable to talk about and be part of these processes and decisions.

But you cannot assume consent, and she most likely didn't know it was even a possibility that her uterus might be taken.

For the last time.

you consent to being an organ donor when you do not opt out.

you consent to ALL VIABLE ORGANS being taken, or some of them, or none.

it’s not that hard to understand.

Are you aware of the processes involved in major organ donation? The donor has to go to theatre with their heart beating and comes out dead. That some families and donors find that too hard to contemplate or agree to is not hard to understand.

Families of beating heart donors usually have very little time to process an unexpected devastating accident or incident, they then have to agree to their loved one being treated to maximise the health of the organs, even though there is not hope for their patient at all. They have to say their goodbyes on a clock and they know what happens to their loved one in theatre.

Anyone involved in this is an absolute hero of the highest order. Credit, praise and gratitude is due.

Anyone not being able to face it is human. Not selfish. Not cowardly. Human.

The donor is dead before going into surgery.