GLP v EHRC judgement - Thread 2

[Another2Cats]

This is a continuation thread from here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5489699-glp-v-ehrc-judgement-is-coming-tomorrow?

I think you’ll find there are many sensitive TiMs who want to use the sensitive women’s facilities. Being around the sensitive women gives a better thrill.

But they are entitled arseholes who think they can do what they like. They don’t care about any social contract, they’re more important.

The Michael Caine justification.

"Someone said to me, 'I saw that Jaws 4 - it stinks'. I said, 'I haven't seen it...but I've seen the house it bought my mother, and it's marvellous."

If they surrender on that, then they are using facilities that constantly remind them that reality is what it is.

It is worse than that: it constantly reminds everyone else that reality is what it is and that they don’t need to pretend those TiM are not men.

This.

This 100% and the ‘outing’ where they are honest about their journey through life.

This was interesting from Michael Foran.
The idea that many men who think they're women believe that access to women's single sex spaces 'is an essential part' of what they 'win' from the State when changing gender.

He explains that the State is happy to let these men write F in a bit of paperwork
but the longed-for 'automatic access' is quite a different matter:-

'There is an interesting difference between how courts compare the relative weight of civil status and access to single-sex spaces and how many trans rights campaigners do. Courts are highly likely to consider civil status such as is reflected in state documentation to be the core of the right to gender recognition where there is limited discretion on the state. On that view, access to a single-sex facility which affirms a transgender person’s identity is a peripheral aspect of the right, if it is covered at all. In contrast, many campaigners and activists seem to presume that access to single-sex spaces is core to the right to gender recognition. Without any case law to support this contention, it is hard to see how it could be true, at least as a matter of the jurisprudence of the ECtHR.'

There are some very strange comments on that reddit thread linked above.....
Apparently TW can breastfeed!
And the world is upside down now

I hear ya. It's the new "But men are just women with less oestrogen!" argument.

Absolutely agree 100%- I was being a little sarky, apologies

It's just the way those redditors frame these comments- as if it's fact
People who don't know or don't understand, might believe this.

And as for "in human biology, sex is far more complex than primary school and bigot biology theory suppports" also bemoaning the notion that transition used to mean changing sex!
More sad times it seems

Also the activists who rushed to inform employers that to follow the guidance would be a really bad idea and legally dodgy

The strategy to be first out of the starting gate with the brave new gender world based on an incomprehensible word salad worked well the first time around. It makes sense they’d try again with every legal case they lose. Unfortunately it does confuse employers and service providers. I’d have been confused but for these well informed threads.

Still think there’s another book to be written.

I have been struggling writing a report about non domestic toilet provision. I know I need to get this information to the HSE and EHRC but it’s really tough going. These are real stories and putting them together is getting to me a bit. Has anyone any tips? I am presuming a few of you work in safeguarding etc. I need to get on with it.

On trans UK Reddit there is a current thread about a couple of transwomen who, having been previously told not to use the ladies in their local Star/Heineken pub, were emboldened by by the High Court gains last week (!) to try using the ladies there again. Told that they should not. Well done to the management of that pub, but not unexpected that the posters on trans UK Reddit do not appear to understand that whatever GLP says the rights to access single sex toilets have not changed.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1r70c3y/mtf_couple_told_we_have_to_use_mens_toilets_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

A couple of things that work for me……

1. maintaining boundaries about when and where I do the work. I’m not sure if you have this luxury, but I don’t work with/ on any heavy safeguarding material at home, despite it being accessible remotely. I always go in to the office. If you don’t have those option, perhaps create a single room where you work on it, which isn’t your bedroom or room where you unwind.
2. remind yourself that your work will make a positive difference. It will bring attention to what needs attending to and you are in a fortunate position to be able to do this. I caveat the last bit as I don’t know your situation but in my case my ‘fortuitousness’ is linked to the power that comes with my profession and role and in my resilience - which is heavily supported by good colleagues and effective clinical supervision. If you don’t have these, it might be that the ask of yourself is too big - and if it is, there is no shame in stepping back

Thank you @Brainworm . I read a BBC story about a man who was trying to help find a girl and a few points felt familiar and overwhelming. However I must remember his situation was different - it was happening at the time. The incidents I am writing about have all happened. I can’t change them. ‘It will bring attention to what needs attending to and you are in a fortunate position to be able to do this.’ This is what I need to focus on. Prevention for the future. The frustration comes from the not knowing if my work will make any difference. I also want it to be the best it can be but may have to settle for as good as I can do at this moment to get it in asap.

I have the same problem Keep - I constantly have to remind myself “perfect is the enemy of done.”

You can do this!

Not trying to kick you off this thread, PP! But might I suggest you start a thread about wht you are trying/need to do? As you may get a lot of relevant support that will help you, rather than being in the middle of this thread where fewer relevant people will see it💐Hope you get it done, it sounds very challenging.

I’d join that thread, @Keeptoiletssafe - I have similar issues but different field

@Keeptoiletssafe I am retired and no longer in the Corporate world but I can re-assure you on one point at least. The work you are doing has already made a difference, in that you have brought the issue of toilet safety to notice. I have seen your posts on the tribunal and other threads, as well as being quoted on other platforms and I have seen the posts where others have specifically asked for your advice. I'm sure many of us on Mumsnet have used public toilets in the past without giving a thought to the work that goes into designing them, but you have opened our eyes and we are passing our concerns about safety to others, including those who are in the field. You should be very proud of the contribution you have made

100% this!

I see PTD being downvoted to oblivion for being the voice of common sense again...