GLP v EHRC judgement - Thread 2

[Another2Cats]

This is a continuation thread from here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5489699-glp-v-ehrc-judgement-is-coming-tomorrow?

Can we say that JM is just throwing whatever he can to keep allies now? It is going to take a miracle to win back the level of support GLP had prior to jumping the shark with the distortion of the judgement, but no doubt he will try.

Yikes, Bates Wells are determined to muddy the waters.
Or are they just not very good?

Written a month ago, so before GLP, but still a triumph of hope over accuracy.

Well as far as i am concerned in the long run they will all look like complete nit wits as JB said the ship is sinking

This has a refreshingly honest statement.

”Some people consider this a victory for women’s rights, while others think it is a huge step backwards for trans people’s rights.”

Reading this, it really seems clear that this group acknowledge that there is a conflict between the two groups. Because I notice that in this sentence they don’t say it was a step backwards for female people.

Plenty of time to have fixed it. Should I send Ms Jhittay a link to Michael Foran's recent article on the subject on the UK Constitutional Law Association site? It's very informative & one does try to be helpful.

Dear @onepostwonder , we have enjoyed your putative backstory across many threads. Our responses have ranged from "sounds probable" through "OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt", "Hmm, not really convinced", "this doesn't add up" to "this is a load of made up bollocks". Only you will know the truth but the rest of us are free to form our own opinion.

Onepost is not British, but moved here as an adult. From his posts on another thread my guess is he is American or Canadian.

Oh, has the story changed again? You told us, repeatedly, that the only exogenous hormone treatment that you had received was oestrogen. Is this not true?

Seriously, you should consider some form of narrative tracker (Excel as a minimum) to help you to keep the story straight.

He's Canadian.

I thought i had misrembered.

“That I and some women believe parts of that experience overlap is my understanding.”

If some women have said to you that they believe you experienced ‘female puberty’, they are either ideologically driven, completely misinformed about what female puberty is or have complied with your ‘near enough is good enough’ philosophy for describing female body processes to allow some male people to acquire the language.

No. You did not experience ‘female puberty.’ You lack the body parts to experience female puberty. Developing male breast tissue (not female breasts as has been explained to you being that no male person can develop female breasts with all the functionality that female breasts have), redistribution of fat deposits and, what was it … female textured skin (?) is not ‘female puberty’.

That male people can induce some changes to their bodies that may ‘overlap’ with female bodies, this is not female puberty. It is accurately a male puberty where estrogen has been added to a male body. You admitted you did not suppress testosterone so you had a puberty with both hormones, testosterone and estrogen.

You and some misguided women labelling it ’female puberty’ is irrelevant to material reality. It was not female puberty because female puberty centres on the female reproductive system. Which you did not and cannot develop.

It is not within your ‘experience’ to have female puberty and telling women you did is not going to change the material reality that you had a male puberty with estrogen added to testosterone.

To put it another way, describing some side effects available to most male people who take large quantities of exogenous estrogen as being unique female puberty processes is always going to be inaccurate. It is a falsity.

As said previously, the unique female puberty process centres on the development of the female reproductive system. That is not possible for a male person to have. There is just no way to dismiss the truth about female puberty with pleas about a male person’s personal ‘experience’ making it somehow true.

He posted about wanting a son years back. He has now put two of his daughters on drugs that will render them infertile and ill.
He calls them sons but they are not

Is that so? I find that really sad, much as I dislike the man. It explains a lot

I read Az Hakeem book, (Trans) narcissistic parents, (ergo celebrities) trans their children, far more than the average population.

I agree, they’ve skirted over this, enabling bad faith actors to make a positive claim that the reverse applies. I think it’s at the limits that these principles get truly tested.

Nothing has changed. I've never said it was the only exogenous hormone treatment I had. I have said my puberty was primarily oestrogen driven. I have also said I have been taking oestrogen for longer than 40 years. I have not been taking progestins nearly as long. I was going to mention other hormones when Helleofabore initially started roaming off into diversions, but 1. it would have been lost, and 2. why even bother bringing it up? I have experience with most forms of oestrogens and progestins available during this time. Synthetics, bioidenticals, pills, implants, lotions, gels, patches subcutaneous injection, intramuscular injection. No one here is interested in that.

When ‘near enough is good enough’ is used for claiming to be something that is impossible and / or to be able to use terms that someone is using a purely personally derived meaning for it doesn’t make the impossible possible . However it is misogynistic to acquire that language, it is misogynistic to define female humans as being ‘someone who is near enough to being female in form of body and the body processes that person goes through to claim to be female’.

I expect that is how a group of male people control the situation around them so they never have to face material reality. Controlling language used keeps the environment around them in the zone to allow them to live in their subjective reality without material reality being allowed to be acknowledged. And those male people have convinced the people
that love them that this has to be done. No wonder that group of male people fight so hard to keep out material reality.

It is why material reality must be dismissed as a belief and those who understand it must be abusively dismissed and demonised as ignorant bigots. Whether through direct accusations or comparative false alignments or through DARVO. It is why people like Maugham and those consultants from Stonewall keep twisting the laws, including the judgements about the EA2010.

The cycle just goes on.

“I have experience with most forms of oestrogens and progestins available during this time. Synthetics, bioidenticals, pills, implants, lotions, gels, patches subcutaneous injection, intramuscular injection. No one here is interested in that.”

Why would all the forms of exogenous hormones taken in excess of the levels found in male bodes matter ? None of them change the material reality that they cannot make a male person female.

Whether it is estrogen alone or estrogen and progesterone, it is not being replaced at levels naturally produced by male humans and therefore is not ‘replacement therapy’.

We keep being accused of having ‘niche obsessions’. I think what qualifies as a niche obsession is male people using language referring to female body parts, processes and medical treatments to apply to themselves when there continues to be no factual basis at all for them to use that language.

Sad to say your friend is wrong. Saw an episode of mythbusters years ago where they did in fact manage to polish turds.

Polished coprolites are rather pretty

“I have experience with most forms of oestrogens and progestins available during this time. Synthetics, bioidenticals, pills, implants, lotions, gels, patches subcutaneous injection, intramuscular injection."

Said no woman ever.

No one here is interested in that.”

Correct

But, but Datun!

“That I and some women believe parts of that experience overlap is my understanding.”

Some women also think that ‘near enough is good enough’ to agree with a male claiming to have ‘female puberty’! It is yet another appeal to authority that we have to consider significant. Just like the mother who shares a changing room with their male child and ‘goes shopping’ and stuff.

I hope those people who tell us just how disrespectful and unkind it is to reject using demanded female language for any male person see the direct results of that decision.

It is clear that some women have enabled these overly confident claims to female language by a group of male people.

It is clear that this has been done through the use of the language of ‘lived experiences’. Apparently it is all ok, and fully creditable, if it is described as an ‘experience’. of course, it is not credible at all.

This continued reliance on statements being a description of how a person ‘experiences’ their life to be able to describe it how ever they want has been a good reminder. After all, that is an attempt to protect a statement as being not able to be proven. Because experiences have a subjective component that cannot be proven to be ‘false’ because that subjective component is all about interpretation.

However, when someone attempts to use it to defend an impossibility it cannot succeed in changing material reality. And just because someone says they have achieved the impossible because they experienced as if it were possible, it reinforces that interpretation as being wholly philosophically driven.