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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

1000 replies

DownhillTeaTray · 12/02/2026 14:44

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Jolyon Maugham KC (@goodlawproject.org)

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
SecretSquirrelLoo · 13/02/2026 22:35

Don’t these MPs actually read?

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 22:36

ItsCoolForCats · 13/02/2026 22:33

I have seen this from Carla Denyer and Nadia Whittome. Is Zarah Sultana the third? 🤔

Kate Osbourne also saying the same.

It's actually terrifying.

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 22:40

SecretSquirrelLoo · 13/02/2026 22:35

Don’t these MPs actually read?

They read what they're told to read. JFC.

It's insane.

Fighting a system where you do the right thing, take the issue to court, WIN! and the result is MPs just completely lie and say the opposite.

Utterly utterly insane.

Datun · 13/02/2026 22:44

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 18:05

It is also notable that the judgment made it crystal clear that the PC of gender reassignment is not based on self identity.

Except, in reality, it is self ID.

He confirmed that it was a 'process', but we all know TRA's assert that they're starting the process, at any point along the spectrum.

Waiting for appointments, waiting for a diagnosis, waiting for hormones, whatever. They can string it out forever. Plus the changes required are never specified.

Either this judge isn't fully au fait with the shenanigans of transactivism. Or he is and doesn't care that he's muddied the waters.

Datun · 13/02/2026 22:45

Another2Cats · 13/02/2026 18:22

"Except they are being treated differently than men who say they are women. in So as far as the comparison goes they are being discriminated against, are they not?"

There is quite a long answer to this question but, in summary, it is ok for people to be treated differently as long as nobody is treated "less favourably". Different treatment doesn't necessarily imply discrimination.

But sometimes it can be difficult to work out whether discrimination has taken place or not.

The judge cited three cases that seem to be the leading cases in this area (I've seen them cited in other cases as well).

In one of them, Smith v Safeway, the company had dress standards of short hair for men, but women were allowed long hair. A male employee with a ponytail was sacked and he then brought a sex discrimination claim.

The Court of Appeal dismissed the claim saying that a dress code that required both sexes to have different, but equally conventional, standards did not treat either sex less favourably.

The court also noted that a standard that was the same for men and women could actually treat one sex less favourably. Imagine if the dress code was that every employee of Tesco had to wear lipstick. Although men and women would be treated equally this would be treating men less favourably as it is not conventional for men to wear lipstick.
.

"Is the judge is saying that should TIMs enter women's spaces, men will not be disadvantaged, but that doesn't mean they can enter, because women might be disadvantaged?"

Correct - sort of. The judge doesn't say that TiM cannot enter women's toilets if a service provider has a "trans-inclusive" toilet.

What he does say is that if TiM are allowed to use the women's toilets then it becomes a mixed-sex toilet (para [53])

He also says (at [52]) that the absence of single-sex female toilets could amount to indirect discrimination. Whether such a claim would be succesful would be:

"... fact-dependent, for example on how the matters referred to at section 19(1)(b) (disadvantage), and (d) (proportionality) fell to be assessed."
.

"And also, I thought this had already been dealt with!! That yes, women are disadvantaged, so it's a non-starter."

Not necessarily, don't forget Kelly v Leonardo employment tribunal case from last year. Although, having said that, the judge also briefly cited Kelly in the judgment (at [41]) and said he preferred his own thoughts on the Workplace Regs:

[41] "This was a claim under the EA 2010 but in the course of its reasoning the Tribunal had cause to consider the meaning and effect of regulation 20 of the 1992 Workplace Regulations. I have considered the relevant part of the Tribunal’s reasons (paragraphs 207 – 245) but none of the points set out there cause me to doubt any of the conclusions above or the meaning and effect of regulation 20."

As I think somebody said near the start of the thread, quoting WInston Churchill, - It is not the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps the end of the beginning.

Thank you. I appreciate the comprehensive answer.

WallaceinAnderland · 13/02/2026 22:46

PTD Yes. That is just not true. A mixed sex service can be run which includes both cis and trans women but not men, without it being direct discrimination against men. But it may be indirect discrimination against women if there are no separate single sex services.

And this is where Hampstead Ponds fall foul of the law because they are providing a changing facility and pond for 'women and transwomen' and a changing facility and pond for 'men only' but no separate changing facility and pond for women only.

FigRollsAlly · 13/02/2026 22:46

ItsCoolForCats · 13/02/2026 12:09

For those not on X (pic should load soon)

So, so pleased for her. She’s been put through so much and is a complete hero.

HildegardP · 13/02/2026 23:11

AnSolas · 13/02/2026 11:17

Crowd funding with a 10% off the top cut?

He's written his daughters a cheque he can't cash & wants everyone else to pay, one way or the other.

HildegardP · 13/02/2026 23:15

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 22:40

They read what they're told to read. JFC.

It's insane.

Fighting a system where you do the right thing, take the issue to court, WIN! and the result is MPs just completely lie and say the opposite.

Utterly utterly insane.

They read what they want to believe & believe whatever fits their priors. Information that conflicts with those priors simply doesn't register with them. It's religious zealotry.

71Alex · 13/02/2026 23:27

Swift J has opened up the hypothetical possibility of a trans-inclusive space which would qualify for a SSE if it was single-sex, but instead is legal under EA2010 for other reasons, based on a less favourable treatment analysis of the surrounding circumstances.

Yes, I think the real-life consequences of this are that you could have some spaces for 'men + trans men' but not for 'women + trans women'. Because women are indirectly discriminated against if they don't have access to single-sex spaces, men not so much.

AnSolas · 13/02/2026 23:36

HildegardP · 13/02/2026 23:11

He's written his daughters a cheque he can't cash & wants everyone else to pay, one way or the other.

Yes he wants everyone to play along.

That he would put a young girl in a changing room full of boys and hope for the best is both creepy and sad

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 23:49

HildegardP · 13/02/2026 23:15

They read what they want to believe & believe whatever fits their priors. Information that conflicts with those priors simply doesn't register with them. It's religious zealotry.

Absolutely.

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 23:54

The thing is, you try to explain any of this to someone who isn't following along and you sound like an absolute nut-job.

Even though we're not talking about what someone said on Instagram or Twitter or whatever, we're talking about actual court cases that anyone can read.

But it sounds nuts.

MyAmpleSheep · 13/02/2026 23:54

WallaceinAnderland · 13/02/2026 17:53

More from PTD on reddit. They are starting to question JM's statement.

PTD And then today they are posting statements which are hugely misleading about the 'silver' lining of the judgement and an outright lie with Maugham claiming the guidance will need to be redrawn and rewritten. When actually the judge found against him on all the points subject to review.

Q from poster: Is it just not true that the verdict rules that women's services can include trans women by excluding men, then?

PTD Yes. That is just not true. A mixed sex service can be run which includes both cis and trans women but not men, without it being direct discrimination against men. But it may be indirect discrimination against women if there are no separate single sex services.

PTD Yes. That is just not true. A mixed sex service can be run which includes both cis and trans women but not men, without it being direct discrimination against men. But it may be indirect discrimination against women if there are no separate single sex services.

PTD is misleadingly incorrect here. Notice he refers to a mixed sex service in general. The Judge was referring specifically and only to lavatories:

Here's paragraph 61 from the Judgment.

Whether different treatment is also less favourable treatment is, therefore, a qualitative question. In a case where the provision of separate lavatories labelled male and female was materially similar in terms of the extent of the provision, location, and so on, I consider there would, in principle, be scope for a strong argument that a rule or practice that permitted trans women to use the “female” lavatory but required other biological men to use the male lavatory would comprise different but not less favourable treatment on grounds of sex. However, the circumstances of the case would be decisive. (For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)

I do not think it is true to say in general that "A mixed sex service can be run which includes both cis and trans women but not men, without it being direct discrimination against men. " It would surely depend very much on the nature of the service.

If the service is provision of toilets then it is, truly, hard to see how a man denied access to women's toilets could claim discrimination - he doesn't have any proper purpose for being in a women's toilet. But if the service were a swimming pool then he could easily argue he's denied (for example) the opportunity to swim with his wife or daughter. This is very much the reasoning in al-Hijra, if anyone else is familiar with that case.

MyAmpleSheep · 14/02/2026 00:04

SerendipityJane · 13/02/2026 16:17

Isn't there a weird inverted snobbery around this ?

"Lavatory" being a dead giveaway that you are pretend posh,. as real posh people say "toilet". ?

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but the lavatory is the room where you attend to your toilet. Try saying lavatory with the stress on the second 'a'. Figure it's similar to observatory and conservatory in style.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 01:40

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 22:36

Kate Osbourne also saying the same.

It's actually terrifying.

It seems concerted.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 01:48

Rainingrain · 13/02/2026 21:00

Your LLM seems to have been trained on GLP not the actual judgement.

Several points in the judgement where you are wrong:

Single sex toilets MUST be provided in workspaces UNLESS there is not space.

Men who identify as women (‘transwomen’) cannot use female spaces but separate spaces can be provided for them.

Toilets don’t need to be policed - it is to be expected that people who identify as trans use the toilet expected of them (that is the one of their biological sex, or unisex) and can be disciplined if they do not.

Exactly. AI frequently gets things wrong. That’s the problem with fake news and misinformation being spread. AI has little idea what’s a reliable source. The GLP are not a reliable source.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 01:54

fromorbit · 13/02/2026 21:32

GLP raised almost 500 k to lose disastrously. All that money could have been used in far more dangerous ways.

Instead they reinforced the Supreme Court ruling. Yes GLP is lying about the result the scam continues. Yet that scam helps our side as long as GLP leads the legal challenge against reality their own incompetence will help our side to greater victories.

They have already raised £18,346.95 to appeal. May as well have burned it.

Outside Pink News their spin is failing

BBC
High Court dismisses challenge to single-sex toilet guidance
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2lrd0ey074o?

Guardian
Good Law Project loses challenge to interim EHRC advice on single-sex spaces
Judge rejects argument that advice is legally flawed and excludes trans people from services they have long used
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2026/feb/13/good-law-project-loses-challenge-interim-ehrc-advice-single-sex-spaces

International Comparative Legal Guides
Good Law Project loses High Court battle over EHRC toilet guidance
https://iclg.com/news/23557-good-law-project-loses-high-court-battle-over-ehrc-toilet-guidance/amp

“Melanie Field, a former civil servant who played a key role in drafting the Equality Act, said: “Sadly this judgment has not provided the clarity many were hoping for in this atmosphere where there are hardline positions on both sides and employers and service providers remain uncertain of their duties. Its reliance on the provision of universal and ‘third spaces’ to meet the needs of trans people raises practical challenges and could impact on the overall availability of single-sex facilities and the ability of trans and disabled people to live in equal dignity with others.

“It is positive in that it seems to reduce the risk that a women’s service that chooses to include trans women will face a successful discrimination case from a man. But overall the judgment highlights the difficulties caused by having a new interpretation of the legislation which conflicts with the original policy and drafting intention. Hopefully the government will now take steps to set out clearly its policy on the treatment of trans people in our society and ensure the law reflects that.”

fuck off Melanie

MyAmpleSheep · 14/02/2026 02:21

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 01:54

“Melanie Field, a former civil servant who played a key role in drafting the Equality Act, said: “Sadly this judgment has not provided the clarity many were hoping for in this atmosphere where there are hardline positions on both sides and employers and service providers remain uncertain of their duties. Its reliance on the provision of universal and ‘third spaces’ to meet the needs of trans people raises practical challenges and could impact on the overall availability of single-sex facilities and the ability of trans and disabled people to live in equal dignity with others.

“It is positive in that it seems to reduce the risk that a women’s service that chooses to include trans women will face a successful discrimination case from a man. But overall the judgment highlights the difficulties caused by having a new interpretation of the legislation which conflicts with the original policy and drafting intention. Hopefully the government will now take steps to set out clearly its policy on the treatment of trans people in our society and ensure the law reflects that.”

fuck off Melanie

"It is positive in that it seems to reduce the risk that a women’s service that chooses to include trans women will face a successful discrimination case from a man."

In that respect it refers only to lavatories. It makes it very clear that whether a man excluded from a service to which another trans-identifying man is permitted can successfully challenge for unlawful direct discrimination hinges on the individual facts of the case. Which of course was always going to be the case.

Really disappointing (but not surprising) this is being spun in this way.

Keeptoiletssafe · 14/02/2026 02:23

71Alex · 13/02/2026 23:27

Swift J has opened up the hypothetical possibility of a trans-inclusive space which would qualify for a SSE if it was single-sex, but instead is legal under EA2010 for other reasons, based on a less favourable treatment analysis of the surrounding circumstances.

Yes, I think the real-life consequences of this are that you could have some spaces for 'men + trans men' but not for 'women + trans women'. Because women are indirectly discriminated against if they don't have access to single-sex spaces, men not so much.

So how would that work with design? Single sex cubicles are not rooms.

The toilets would have to have sanitary bins in.

The designs would have to become enclosed with no urinals unless you change legislation and building regs and standards. And possibly the Sexual Offences Act.

Urinals are quicker and you can fit more in an area do they are advantageous.

Shy bladder syndrome or paruresis is much more common in men than women. But if it is known women would be going in and out of the urinal area, it may cause greater discomfort for those who suffer with this.

Then there’s the usual disadvantages with making designs completely private I always go on about. This would affect boys and medically vulnerable males more.

In reality it wouldn’t work.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 03:10

MyAmpleSheep · 14/02/2026 02:21

"It is positive in that it seems to reduce the risk that a women’s service that chooses to include trans women will face a successful discrimination case from a man."

In that respect it refers only to lavatories. It makes it very clear that whether a man excluded from a service to which another trans-identifying man is permitted can successfully challenge for unlawful direct discrimination hinges on the individual facts of the case. Which of course was always going to be the case.

Really disappointing (but not surprising) this is being spun in this way.

Quite.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 03:16

Rainingrain · 13/02/2026 21:00

Your LLM seems to have been trained on GLP not the actual judgement.

Several points in the judgement where you are wrong:

Single sex toilets MUST be provided in workspaces UNLESS there is not space.

Men who identify as women (‘transwomen’) cannot use female spaces but separate spaces can be provided for them.

Toilets don’t need to be policed - it is to be expected that people who identify as trans use the toilet expected of them (that is the one of their biological sex, or unisex) and can be disciplined if they do not.

Thank you for correcting this. It’s worrying that AI is being taken as correct when it actually reflects the misinformation being spread by TRAs like GLP and their friends.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 05:17

Keeptoiletssafe · 14/02/2026 02:23

So how would that work with design? Single sex cubicles are not rooms.

The toilets would have to have sanitary bins in.

The designs would have to become enclosed with no urinals unless you change legislation and building regs and standards. And possibly the Sexual Offences Act.

Urinals are quicker and you can fit more in an area do they are advantageous.

Shy bladder syndrome or paruresis is much more common in men than women. But if it is known women would be going in and out of the urinal area, it may cause greater discomfort for those who suffer with this.

Then there’s the usual disadvantages with making designs completely private I always go on about. This would affect boys and medically vulnerable males more.

In reality it wouldn’t work.

Edited

Yes, no one has given thought to practicalities like this.

spindrifft · 14/02/2026 05:21

Keeptoiletssafe · 14/02/2026 02:23

So how would that work with design? Single sex cubicles are not rooms.

The toilets would have to have sanitary bins in.

The designs would have to become enclosed with no urinals unless you change legislation and building regs and standards. And possibly the Sexual Offences Act.

Urinals are quicker and you can fit more in an area do they are advantageous.

Shy bladder syndrome or paruresis is much more common in men than women. But if it is known women would be going in and out of the urinal area, it may cause greater discomfort for those who suffer with this.

Then there’s the usual disadvantages with making designs completely private I always go on about. This would affect boys and medically vulnerable males more.

In reality it wouldn’t work.

Edited

The loos at my workplace consist of six individual rooms off a single corridor, three in each side. Each room contains a toilet and a sink and a sanitary bin. Two of them are marked as female-only, two as male-only, and two as unisex*. Theres also a separate, larger, accessible loo.

With this setup, and as long as they communicated it clearly, I think my employer would be able to have policies that allow TW to use the female-designated loos without that being discriminatory or in breach of regs. Fortunately, they're not currently doing this.

* The use of a unisex sign.with both ♂️ and ♀️symbols caused controversy since.some non-binary employees claimed to be neither sex and that therefore there was no loo available for them. This campaign seems to have fizzled out without forcing a change in the signage to "for anyone" or similar.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2026 06:11

spindrifft · 14/02/2026 05:21

The loos at my workplace consist of six individual rooms off a single corridor, three in each side. Each room contains a toilet and a sink and a sanitary bin. Two of them are marked as female-only, two as male-only, and two as unisex*. Theres also a separate, larger, accessible loo.

With this setup, and as long as they communicated it clearly, I think my employer would be able to have policies that allow TW to use the female-designated loos without that being discriminatory or in breach of regs. Fortunately, they're not currently doing this.

* The use of a unisex sign.with both ♂️ and ♀️symbols caused controversy since.some non-binary employees claimed to be neither sex and that therefore there was no loo available for them. This campaign seems to have fizzled out without forcing a change in the signage to "for anyone" or similar.

Edited

That’s hilarious.

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