Captain’s Bar, Edinburgh

[AccidentallyWesAnderson]

Probably need to wait for the image to be approved but someone has left a recent review, Carol Anne, four days ago complaining of men using the women’s toilet.

Does the ‘legally-binding Global Human Rights Policy and Code of Non-discrimination, which prohibit discrimination based on gender, sexual orientation, and other protected characteristics’ allow them to mark a single use women’s toilet as ‘women’, yet continue to let males use it? Lovely to note GC women (those that don’t live in fantasy land) aren’t welcome in their parting shot.

At a time when hospitality venues are struggling, you would think that the Captain’s Bar would be keen not to piss off half the population of Edinburgh. Evidently they would rather go bust.

I’m surprised, it was a regular place but didn’t seen TRA.

Management has spoken.

They clearly don’t want female people who want to not encounter male people coming out of the cubicle to come to their venue as per their reply.

That last line seems incredibly stupid to include as that seems quite obviously discriminatory against those who hold GC beliefs.

I just don’t get the ‘legally biding Global Human Rights Policy.. blah blah’.

Surely the Supreme Court is what’s legally binding here, and that is if you state a provision is for women then it’s biological women only. They are blatantly stating they’re happy to break the law?

If this has been the other way around guaranteed TRA’s would’ve flooded the review page with nonsense.

Yes! This also.

Fab response!

So the ladies loos is actually a unisex loo and Gender Critical beliefs are not WORIADS according to the Captain's Bar!

Hopefully this gains media attention and they back down or lose trade.

It's perfectly reasonable for a business to have 2 single-user cubicles which can be used by members of either sex. If males are allowed to use the one marked "women" and vice versa then that's the situation, anyone of either sex can use either. There's no legal protection against the trauma of seeing someone of the opposite sex emerging from the single-user cubicle you are about to use.

If the facility marked for "women" has an inner cubicle without a sink, and the sink is in outer area which isn't lockable, then that's a problem. If the facility marked for "men" contains a cubicle plus separate urinal such that males have access to 3 locations they can use, only one of which is accessible to most women, then that is discriminatory. However if it's just 2 fully enclosed single user facilities then there's no legal difference between notices that say "unisex" and notices that say "it doesn't matter what type of body you have, male and female bodies allowed in either, but people with ladyfeels are invited to use the one on the left and people with mascfeels are invited to use the one on the right and we don't care what the rest of you do". Labelling them as "Women" and "Men" but having a policy that amounts to them actually being Unisex isn't great, but the most they could legally be forced to do is label them correctly, they couldn't be forced to reserve one for biological females.

Another bar on the banned list, this is all very tiresome but fortunately Edinburgh has a huge number of places not run by numpties.

I am GC but agree with previous poster that if it’s a single cubicle with wash facilities entered by a single door straight from the bar, I don’t really see the issue, notwithstanding the tiresome “global human rights” speak reply.

I just don’t get the ‘legally biding Global Human Rights Policy.. blah blah’.

It's all part of the Global Lefts rhetoric, a world with no borders, a global society with no boundaries. It's Queer Theory writ large, it shows they're all singing from the same hymn book, there's nothing original, they're all cut and paste drones of the same cult. This is how the West dies bored to death by it's own banality.

Global policies start as a baseline which countries are expected to meet. So in the UK this would include the EA10 and the Human Rights Act. The other PCs in that list he has included should therefore include sex - he has put gender so not sure he means sex or not. That is my understanding.

Half the population don't feel this way about the issue. A few will. Not most.

This was from the original post I saw it on regarding the set up -

What is this shite about? The Global Human Rights Policy, blah blah blah??? This is in the UK. Most places are finding any and every way possible to ignore the Supreme Court ruling from almost a year ago
(Btw the toilet isn't exactly single use. You have to first go through a small sink area to get to the toilet. The lock is on the toilet, but the sink area is shared by anyone waiting, namely women and men who say they're women)

By all means have two single use toilets but just name them unisex, or WC on the door?

My main issue is the response. They adhere to not
discriminating on the basis of ‘other protected characteristics’ and then go on to basically say they do.

Have you polled half the population? All the polls I’ve seen aren’t in agreement with you.

Can anyone who has been to this bar explain the toilet set up? If it’s a single use cubicle with sink inside then thats one thing (but not great for all the reasons @keeptoiletssafe will tell us) but if that cubicle is behind another door with a private lobby off the main space where people can wait then thats not at all safe or OK to have mixed sex use. Im assuming it’s the latter - possibly with the sink in that lobby space? Either way the management response seems rude and underlines why women should avoid it

People who do those polls are those that have a vested interest either way. The vast majority of the population never consider this issue.

The vast majority want single sex spaces to remain so.

I only know one person who holds an opinion (of EITHER side) on this issue. No one else I know has ever mentioned it. Even when we've had discussions that cover it.

Yes, that’s very representative of the population.

Edinburgh again. Hotspot of toilet stories!

Instinctively it sounds like it does not conform with the 1992 legislation because it sounds like cubicles within a room.

I am more familiar with England than Scotland. With devolution it’s difficult as I have to work out which standards, HSE, doc M bits and legislation has transferred over.

I need more info about the set up then refer back to the Scottish regs. The ‘lockable’ bit is always a red flag because in all the uk, building regs state non domestic toilets have to be able to be unlocked easily from the outside as so many people collapse inside toilets, and this has been in place for a long time. This vital safety mechanism has been misused by men. That’s why unisex toilets (like the accessible disabled) should open straight onto a general (as busy as possible) corridor. The ‘one person at a time’ suggests the sink is within the same ‘locked’ area as the wc. It could just mean it’s so small you can’t get two people in! The way it’s been phrased sounds like they have looked it up and repeated it.

If the Captains Bar is a really old pub with 2 toilets, the toilets would have originally just been men’s. I have sympathy with historic places trying to fit in with modern times (like women being outside the home so needing provision!) but these toilets sound unsafe from the design they appear to be.

@Keeptoiletssafe I'm sure you know a 13 year old girl was raped recently in an Edinburgh toilet.

Well you can bet none of the people who appear to hold no opinion are pro-biological males in women’s spaces, because they’d be more than happy to tell you. But if you’re not sympathetic to biological women having their own spaces, there are probably women who DO want those spaces keeping quiet around you. There are a number of people in my life that I never discuss this issue with, because people who are pro males in women’s spaces are prone to try to ostracise or bully anyone who disagrees with them. That is not to say you would do as much, but it is far from uncommon. My workplace is exceedingly pro ‘inclusivity’. I would never dare to state my views on this around my colleagues.