Curious why pro-sex worker advocates have been so silent since Epstein file release??

[ThatZanyFatball]

The latest release of Epstein files has further laid bare what most of us already know, that powerful men exploit vulnerable women.

Not intending to cast aside the minors who were abused by these men, but being that there were also many women who were over the age of consent, I'm curious as to why pro-sex worker advocates haven't come out in defense of the men implicated in the Epstein files. I mean after all, they're all allegedly consenting adults, right?

Where are the pro-prostitution advocates who would simply label these activities as sex work? A woman is offered the opportunity to sell her body to a man, she accepts, what's the harm, right? No different than a desk job? I mean, could it be that Epstein and his ilk truly show the depths of danger and depravity that occurs when men believe they should have free rein over women's bodies? And that women who are coerced (or forced) into such situations are actually at risk of being abused and exploited, not "empowered?"

Would love to hear statements from sex worker advocates on all this.

I agree. Terry Pratchett said that evil starts when you begin to treat people like things. And this is where it ends. The problem with all the liberal choosy choose sex stuff is that men LIKE transgressive sex. If you make BDSM, anal, sex work and cross dressing (to pick a few) vanilla, they have to find worse and worse things to try. Kink shaming is actually the point for many men. Fetishes are supposed to be perverted.

These poor girls are the object that these men project their exclusivity onto. They can do anything. And appear to be getting away with it. Why aren’t they all bailed to appear?

And see if the usual suspects appear on this thread.

Yes, exactly, MrsT

100% OP.

Yes, you would think the 'feminist's' would be all over this wouldn't you. Could it be they can't touch it because they support women being used as sex objects. Because that's what actively working to make prostitution legal and promoting it as a good career choice for poor women, so they can work they're way out of poverty, is.

It's just like the Omnicause Feminist's who are oh so silent about the plight of women in Iran, they can't object to the way the regime is treating them without torpedoing they're own assertion that the Hijabs are empowering for women.

Sex work is work. So working for rich, powerful and famous men is aspirational. Plus these women got to go to parties on an exclusive luxury island!

Maggie Chapman can probably explain it better, but defending prostitution is definitely righteous and progressive. Definitely.

A year or two ago, or maybe longer - I lose track - I do remember quite a few people saying things like, "these girls were partying, travelling aroudn the world on private planes, wearing designer clothes.... they knew what they were getting into." Which I found extreemely irritating at the time.

But there's been a shift. Which I welcome. But I do wonder if those people are still out there, they're just less vocal because public opinion has changed a bit.

There is another conundrum I can't get my head around. Whenever trans awareness month etc. comes around, various stats are cited regarding trans people who are murdered worldwide. The.majority of these murders are committed against people working in prostitution in Brazil and other parts of the world.

Yet, TRAs are often fervently pro "sex work". Can they not see the issue here 🤔

Child grooming, trafficking and rape and/or facilitating their rape are violence and crimes.

The trafficking and rape and/or facilitating the rape of adult women are also violence and crimes.

Epstein wasn't investigated and arrested for hiring adult prostitutes.

Sex work supporters are discussing this everywhere.

I haven't seen any condemnation from Katy Hopkins either. Mind you didn't she say she'd be happy to be felt up by Trump when his "grab them by the...." comment was circulated.

Epstein wasn't investigated and arrested for hiring adult prostitutes.

Perhaps if he had been, his sleazy predilections wouldn't have escalated.

Epstein wasn't investigated and arrested for hiring adult prostitutes.

Only because he was able to do a deal not to be.

This. He was also using adults (very young adults). If that had been seen as transgressive, we might not be here.

In the olden days, the CIA, Mossad, KGB would get married men in comprising situations with adult women. Now it's girls.

If it was a US federal crime, perhaps not.

I don't know if there are any women who consentually participated in Epstein's world. I haven't read any of the documents and I don't plan to. It seems they may have been exposed to everything else that was happening which expands beyond sex-work implications and into support of crimes if they are not reported.

When she said we couldn't "punish clients," I gawped.

Why the fuck shouldn't we? Why wouldn't a decent, sane society want to punish and penalise men who think they can buy consent from largely trafficked women unable to stop them?

Chapman is despicable.

The likes of Epstein must laugh themselves hoarse at the parade of earnest, worthy progressive types defending "sex work".

As ever, we’ve got at least one idiot on the thread trying to make out that feminists haven’t been campaigning against porn and sexual exploitation since oh, forever.

If there’s one truism, it’s that there is always a grimy little political tribalist desperately trying to get “women” en masse to put their rights aside and join their crusade instead - whether it’s to save the working class, or trans rights, or to get Farage elected, or pretend that Trump wasn’t up to his neck in Epstein’s world but Clinton was - but really, they’re all the same and need the same message. “No thank you!”

Regardless of whether things start out as consensual - the whole business of sex or sexual favours for money, or other benefits, is simply degrading and abusive. Initially 'choosing' to get involved does not detract from this fact and is surely something we should be cautioning against rather than encouraging.

I agree. Looking at some of the marriages of these men, I have to wonder if the institution of marriage has ever fully evolved beyond being a transaction between two men. But that isn't the topic of this thread.

The whole way they talk about these women shows that it's not about sex workers. Becuase the point is that Epstein could get "girls" (that's the nicest/ least offensive term theu use) that these men felt they couldn't. Whether that's because of what/who these girls were, the fact that these men didn't want to be out there doign it themselves but Epstein had some sort of dodgy way in, or whether it's because it was about the sheer scale of it.... it's all generally disgusting the way they speak about it and frankly, even the people out there who like to bang on about "sex work is work" should be able to see it.

I dont understand the point of the OP.

Obviously those who suppport sex work, whether claiming to be feminist or otherwise would say adult women choosing to sell their bodies would not oppose it. Some would even say that there is always a risk of violence (mentioning that as until recently there hasn't been much info in the public domain about how violent a lot of these men were).

And I am sure that those who support sex work would have some sort of statement about under age girls should not be used by adult men.

I think maybe the issue is that OP feels some women who put themselves forward to comment on this that or the other are important. They aren't. They just have an over inflatted idea of how important the are.

The real quesiton is why OP thinks they are important.

Ordinary women that I know whether feminist or not, pro sex or not, are all shocked.

Suggest OP finds new friengs, and not bother with those who think they are important enough to publish themselves.

I would of course be shocked in someone who frequently posted on FWR start a thread about why is everyone getting so upset!

"...Trump wasn’t up to his neck in Epstein’s world but Clinton was...'

Er, what? Bill Clinton went to the island more than 2 dozen times. And Hillary went to Epstein's ranch.

The flight logs are available to anyone online and Pam Bondi (US Attorney General, if you don't know) says they're real.

Not only did Trump never go, he helped Alex Acosta get the only conviction against Epstein - and was commended by Acosta for that fact.

Honestly, this just highlights what happens when gullible people believe anything they read in any news outlet that calls men 'she'.

I dont understand the point of the OP

There are a few rather obsessive and very prolific pro-prostitution posters on MN, all with very similar posting styles, who usually jump instantly on any thread about prostitution to argue about how empowering prostitution is for women; how prostitutes are mostly doing it quite happily for high class call girl work and a luxury lifestyle, etc. etc.

Strangely, as predicted by the OP, they seem not to want to post on the Epstein threads. I wonder why? Possibly because it isn’t remotely lovely and empowering in reality?

People who support things with an obvious capacity for bad consequences tend to fall silent about those bad consequences when they actually happen. It's the same pattern we see with men in women's prisons, a problem most pro-trans people deal with by simply not talking about it.

I’ve been wondering about exactly this. The most recent accusation against Andrew Mountbatten Windsor concerns a Russian woman in her 20s who apparently asked Epstein if he could arrange a night with Andrew in London and then emailed the next day to say what a great night it had been. Presumably the pro sex work lot think this is all marvellous.

Totally agree! I’ve commented on a few threads about the shifting perspective with this.

Now, cynically, I think it’s more about wanting to be anti Epstein and anti royal than in defence of sex workers- because some of these sex workers on the face of it were getting a good deal. Private jets, tours of Windsor, princes and moguls… Is this sex work just work, because travelling for work is normal. Or is it people trafficking?

Personally, consent can’t be bought, there’s always an imbalance of power when someone is wealthy enough not to need to work and someone is working at having sex to earn money.