The Countess - Womens rights group in Ireland - Report on Immigration Effects on Women & Girls

[KnottyAuty]

Irish people are being forced to accept policy that transgresses fundamental boundaries and treats nature, identity, culture, family, and nationality as negotiable when in fact, the family unit, community, and inherited culture are the scaffolding of a stable society. We at The Countess are unafraid of analysing policy through the lens of womens’ rights and child safeguarding.

thecountess.ie/a-new-campaign-a-new-direction-a-new-mission/

Report: Through a Safeguarding lens, darkly: a thematic report into the International Protection Provision in Ireland

The report has identified significant shifts in the nature of sexual violence across Europe, highlighting emergent trends in opportunistic street attacks and group-based sexual assaults. The findings raise urgent questions for Irish policymakers as the State continues to accommodate over 33,000 individuals in the International Protection system without screening them against European Crime databases.

Drawing on official statistics from multiple EU member states including Austria, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Italy, and France, the report outlines clear evidence that foreign-born individuals are over-represented in sexual offence data, often by a factor of three to four, with even higher rates in specific subcategories such as gang rape.

Sounds like a brilliant piece of work. And I suddenly feel as though I now need to think more deeply/critically about news coverage which portrays those protesting about immigration hotels as right wing racists… all sounding awfully familiar…

Does anyone know if UK immigration stats are disaggregated to allow a similar comparison?

You didn't answer my question about the refuges/hostels.

So you have no issues, and don't care that other women might feel uncomfortable or be unable to access the changing rooms for religious reasons, past trauma etc,, if there is a naked person with a penis sharing the showers, changing areas, etc?

Legal or illegal should make no difference if you're generalizing that they are all a bunch or rape approvers. If they came here legally, from your perspective they're still more likely to be rapists. You could argue for less migration in sheer number without being an authoritarian control freak and denying people entry because you don't like their views. Maybe some people would hate your views, should you be banned from travelling?

There's nothing wrong with men and women being in the same toilets. If you're personally uncomfortable with something, you should be adult enough to appreciate it's not everyone else's problem

Oh, and you're not. It's so interesting that these men are inherently not a risk, yet premises to house men, and women/children, are kept seperate.
If asylum hotels and half way housing was for Ukrainian or HK refugees, or even a natural disaster bringing over 40K Canadians annually, there would be no separating of the men and women.
The Afghan asylum seeker who threw acid in the face of the Afghan woman who'd spurned him? He was housed in an all male place, she in an all women one.
Just why is it deemed necessary to seperate male and female/with young children illegal migrants?
Seems very strange if these men, as you say, are no more at risk of being offenders than any other men.

I don't think anyone is a bigot for being uncomfortable with it, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong, especially if you're talking about toilets, where no one should be nude to begin with. Straight men are often uncomfortable or trauamtized by gay men if they were molested or raped, gay men aren't socially obligated to use a different restroom though. And men and women have often used each other's restrooms for one reason or another, like skipping a queue or going in with their daughter.

I mention sex crimes specifically because that is the topic of this thread. But detailed statistics should be collected on all crime. On who the perpetrators are, who the victims are, everything. Also that wouldn't be "penalizing people based on assumption of guilt." I can see how it would be seen as unfair, to keep out men who would not commit offences to also keep out the ones who would though. But for a lot of us one here the priority is going to be women safety and freedom of movement over men's. When women live in a less safe society our freedom of movement is greatly restricted.

And what of the Afghan men who have never thrown acid at anyone?

Downplaying some people's rights and freedom over others is always going to be wrong, and bigoted. Women also are not less safe than men. Sexual offenses are aimed at women more often, not general violence though. People don't have universal male or female experiences, because there's more to being a person than their sex. Most women aren;t going around terrified of being raped, let alone by specific races, and many women openly express all kinds of different worries.

"Also that wouldn't be "penalizing people based on assumption of guilt."" That's literally what is is. Can we ban you from other countries because they assume you're at odds with their culture? Or would you consider that authoritarian?

Your posts are really instructive. That you apply blank slate theory/no cultural differences between people/men and women are broadly the same/why worry about THAT when there's also THIS/data has no part to play here.
I guess there are people who wouldn't bat an eyelid if a local hotel near schools etc was filled with unvetted men, wouldn't be interested in knowing if they come from countries and cultures that view women and children and gays very poorly indeed, or wouldn't have an issue with hundreds of similar men housed at local barracks, drifting about town.
Just like there are women who have no issues if women meet TIMs in the showers of their local gym, or are cool with men are in a female sports event or prison, or lesbian speed dating.
I mean none of it is triggering, disturbing, worrying. No data should be collected, let alone published, let's not have public policy built on facts.
Let's just assume men and women are the same, all cultures are built equal, and any worries are purely bigoted white cis heteropatriarchal types, or TERFs who should worry about other things.

Another thing about good, granular data is that it can sometimes point away from simplistic assumptions about race and nationality. The data that we do have about the rape gangs points away from a simple skin colour-based narrative and forces the racists to be part of a more nuanced debate.

Granular data is also more likely to lead to solutions. It gives the particular community an opportunity to investigate why that sexual offence is prevalent in their community, and think about how best to address that. If it is a community that is still growing from immigration, it can consider how better to assimilate new arrivals. It can also indicate situations where women from a particular community are being targetted by men outside that community, again with a view to addressing that in a meaningful way.

Not having data doesn't mean the problems go away. It just means that racists dominate the conversation and women and children continue to be harmed

People are actually denied entry to other countries because of their views though. There was thread about a right wing agitator being denied entry to the u.k. on here recently. I'll see if I can find it.

Why do you keep separating legal and illegal status when you think it's okay to assume that men from certain countries are evil, despite no actual crime being committed? You never answered that. If they're oh so bad to the point where you want them kept out, despite how law abiding many will be, then they're going to be 'rapey' regardless of legal status. And in terms of interacting with people on an individual basis, you have no idea what someone's legal status is. I knew a Thai woman for a long time before discovering she was here illegally. How would you even know if a man if Afghan as oppose to another Arabic country unless he told you? What you;re promoting, whether you admit it or not, if bigotry, because that's what bigotry involves in all forms. The assumption of guilt based on a negative association.

Yes, which is wrong. If you support abortion, then that means you not only support mass killing of unborn babies, but it likely means you support discrimination too, since many abortions are committed for discriminatory reasons. Should you be banned from travel because some people find it evil?

I don't think anyone from a different country should be outright banned. But I do think that if men from certain cultures pose an increased risk of committing violent or sexual crimes then the numbers that are allowed in should be greatly reduced. I also think more should be done to help them integrate better.

Wanting to ban people purely based on where they come from is bigoted.

You're really slicing the onion.
Yes, most women likely don't have daily fears of rape from non Brits.
That's because until the last 10-15 years, we had moderate immigration, cultures were moderately introduced.
We had no circumstances where hundreds of single men from one culture we plonked in British towns, from cultures that are inimical to ours.
The data around asylum hotels on sexual assaults is already poor, per capita way worse than if those hotels were full of Canadians.
To say that when hundreds of single men are housed in your town there is nothing to fear from the cultural clash is just preposterous.

Again, you still have not answered my question about refuges/hostels.

There is a big difference between a gay man in a men's changing room and a biological male in a women's changing room. You cannot tell if someone is gay by looking at them. Also, women are, in general, much more vulnerable to men than men are to other men.

I'm not talking about toilets. I'm talking about showers/changing areas where people tend to be naked. Do you not care that some women cannot use the facilities if biological males are allowed in?

I think it's up to an adult how much they 'integrate' or not, whatever that even means. Plenty of native Brits don't want to integrate with their communities either.

If a country was anti abortion and considered pro abortion countries as culturally not compatible, of course they should be able to say no thanks to Brits.
I don't expect to go to Qatar and strip off as if I'm on a Friday night out at a club over here and expect not to be told I'm unwanted.
Keep digging.

I’ll restate it because you don’t seem to have understood what I said: I want to collect data in order to be able to discover specific issues that are leading to increasing rates of sexual assault/abuse of women and children in Ireland.

Then I want the justice system to take steps (informed by the data) to address those issues. We don’t know what the specific measures that need to be taken will be until we collect and analyse the data.

What we’re currently doing is insufficient to the task. If The Countess have data that is useful in improving our currently inadequate system, I want that type of data collected and considered.

And Ireland’s dreadful history of allowing widespread sexual abuse of women and children is well-documented and something every Irish community has had to deal with over the last 70+ years. Our judiciary and legislature are woefully inadequate in tackling the issue.

I don't know. Many men and women are in nude spaces all the time and are fine with it. So it seems to be a personal thing.

"Also, women are, in general, much more vulnerable to men than men are to other men." You also can't tell someone is a predator by looking at them. It's not a numbers game. Gay men were initially banned from the military with the accusation they will molest other men. So in some circumstances there were ways of knowing. You seem to be saying that men who feel sexual trauma around gay men isn't to be taken seriously compared to women? The argument is "we don't feel comfortable around men" is fine for women to say, but when men do it, they're homophobic? I;ve been in the women's room myself and every so often seen a man in there. No often, but occasionally it happens. One time with his daughter, another time he appeared to be a cleaner. I can;t recall seeing a trans women in there ever, but I wouldn't have a problem with it in the toilets.

I don't have much of an opinion about hostels. Some accept trans women, some don't. It's up to the owners. Even the supreme court ruling didn't insist that trans women MUST be denied entry to certain things, like women's toilets. It simply said that owners can enforce a single sex space if they want to.

You can;t stop crime. It's not gonna happen. You can only do what's realistically possible, without imposing on people's rights. But there was someone in here earlier lying by claiming women are forced to marry pedos in Ireland by law, so I don't know how truthful people are being about it.

That's not really the defence you think it is. Since those countries are authoritarian. As you are.

Are you perhaps mentally challenged?

Falling into petty insults because you realise that you have proved you own position to be fundementally flawed is not helping your case.

What's in dispute is you and other people arguing you can assume that people are criminals based on where they come from, and nothing more than that.

That ^ is your comprhension bias at play

So baby maths

Country A has 1 sex offender male per 100,000 males

Country B has 10 sex offender males per 100,000 males

If Ireland lets 100,000 males in from each country the likelyhood is that of the 200,000 males let in 11 are sex offenders.

So if Ireland wants to stop the majority of sex offenders from both countries the Government should focus on getting both Country to provide pre-clearance checks as a part of Border Control

If there are limited resources it is also in Irelands best interest firstly to establish a clear line of communication with Country B and have them agree to data share and to establish other methods if the data is not reliable and then on Country A.

It will not stop sex offending but will result in a reduction of sex offenders in the wider community

Who are you to police where people go purely based on generalizations on where they come from?

A voter

Who unlike you is prepared to carry out Civic Duties to maintain Civil Order.

I am not talking about holiday hostels. I am talking about half way hostels and homeless hostels. I also asked about refuges.

You seem to be saying that men who feel sexual trauma around gay men isn't to be taken seriously compared to women?

I suggest you read what I wrote, not what you made up.

And no, you can't tell a predator by looking at them. That is why we have single sex spaces in the first place.

I don't know why you keep harking back to toilets. I am not referring to toilets. Your point about men and woman being comfortable in mixed sex naked spaces does not apply to Ireland in general, which is you recall, is where the thread is about. In some cultures it is the norm. In others, such as ireland, it is not.

You also haven't answered my question about whether you would be fine with a naked make sharing an open plan shower and changing area with you. Or whether you're OK with women having to self exclude due to religion/trauma etc.

You're not very good at this. Any country has the right to let who they want in.
If the United Republic Of Anti Abortionia said they refused entry to any citizens of nations that were pro abortion, that would be their right. Whether they were a utopia or ran capital punishment and public flogging.
I can criticise their policy (as I do Saudi, Taliban Afghanistan, etc), but if that's their policy on migration, totally consistent. I wouldn't want to live there. But they can chose who will be their citizens.
Ditto us, if we want vastly beefed up vetting on migrants applying to live here from the nations with the worst records on sexual violence and cultural practices to boot, and we need to data to formulate this policy, then let's see the numbers.
Right now I wouldn't let a single person from Mirpuri province anywhere near this country.