Looking at men differently now I know too much?

[clingfilmed]

In recent years I've seen so much in the news and online about men's abuse and violence towards women. A man who looks totally normal and pleasant and is perhaps in many ways a good man might still be going home and creating fake AI nudes of women he knows or watching extreme porn or abusing his wife or kids or using prostitutes or cam girls or has a fetish that degrades and dehumanises women or is a complete misogynist.

There is a post on the relationships board now where a married man is hoping that just because a mum of his sons friend has been friendly towards him she might fancy him and be up for it.

Then looking at many of the men I know day to day how they talk to and interact with their wives and families is depressing to see, almost like they don't care at all.

I know its not every man, I know some men who I do think are good. I do look back to the rose tinted days of my teens when I would idealise boys and think they were so amazing and now knowing what I do about general trends and some men in particular its quite a disappointment.

Of course women are unlikely to describe themselves as feminists if it means being called bitter man-haters and frothers. Feminazi was a fashionable slur when I first started frequenting online forums. I can cope with being called names.

I think there is an element of urban complacency in those downplaying male attitude and behaviour; very few people know (or care) where their food comes from and have no idea of the safety required around uncastrated male livestock. I grew up in the country and worked on a stud farm as a teenager. The difference between a stallion and a gelding was quite eye-opening. Stallions are not inherently vicious, but they need to be handled by experienced, alert people.

OMG I wish we still had the laugh react. Priceless. I think that 'uncastrated male livestock' could be the new 'thirty to fifty feral hogs'.

Wow. Just wow.

I'm afraid that's just how it is. You don't have to like it.

Did you miss the bit in the post about most men choosing not to behave inappropriately?

Perhaps, but that's how it is.

Any man protesting otherwise is either ill, gay, in denial, or lying.

Perhaps, but that's how it is.

Any man protesting otherwise is either ill, gay, in denial, or lying.

Speak for yourself. You can't possibly speak for all men.

Men aren’t lonely enough yet.

The only thing stopping me from retraining into a trade, because my sector is in trouble whereas plumbers and sparkies are never out of work, is the daily raw sexism that I know I'd face on the sites.

During WW2, the land army women and female aircraft and shipbuilders did very well.

He can speak for a lot more men than you can, what with actually being one.

I think of Aisling Murphy when walking in lonely places during the day.

And I know the chances of something happening is small....but she was still brutally attacked and killed in broad daylight after going for a run in the early afternoon.

I also see so many men who feel perfectly entitled to have someone else clean up after them.

Yup. All these men who will dig a ditch with an excavator or a spade but won't run the vacuum cleaner.

And the hate they got when the men returned from war.

Can’t take the competition these men.

I don't experience 'daily raw sexism' onsite. I'm sat on a HS2 site right now working the evening shift. I personally found it much more frustrating in the corporate sector tbh. Most men weren't stupid enough to say things that could get them in trouble with HR, but they'd happily dump a load of cups/plates in the sink after a meeting for the women to wash up. And if they were a Very Important Man nobody dared say anything. If you did that at my workplace you'd find them all stacked on the seat of your truck/machine the next morn.

I'm not going to lose my mind if one of the lads occasionally makes a crack like "watch out boys she's reversing!". You can be sure professional men say sexist stuff on the golf course with their male clients and you can't challenge it if you're not there. I'll happily give it back but tbh I'm not too precious. The Welsh guy is probably getting sheep shagger jokes or it'll be "lock up the tools the scousers are here". I don't assume they genuinely hate the Welsh or Liverpudlians.

I've got a great relationship with my workmates and we all help each other out as we're not in competition - we either have our own roles or have that bond of doing the same job so we look out for each other. I've done things like squash a newly laid kerb on a newbuild site or crush a raised manhole cover which was obscured by mud. It happens when you're in large vehicles 50 hours a week doing tight manoeuvres with the sun in your eyes, or in the dark with lots of glare from spotlights and shadows. 99% of the time the guys are like "don't worry love, we didn't see anything".

When I was a bid manager the women I worked with (only one male in our team of ten) loved it when somebody in the wider team missed an important deadline etc as we were all competing for a promotion. They'd all be gossiping about it. I actually remember missing a deadline myself, which even my boss agreed wasn't my fault as there were problems with the portal and they'd all got the content to me late despite my chasing.

One of the girls I worked with was stood by my desk on the Monday saying "oh, somebody really cocked up with that submission last week. I'd hate to be in their shoes" etc. Really stirring the pot and making sure everyone knew. She had no idea it was me! I let her dig a really deep hole before filling her in on what actually happened! I've never seen somebody go so red. 😂

But I'll concede that's just my experience and others will have different stories to tell. But if I had a pound for every time I've heard a feminist give an excuse why they can't do 'a man's job' I'd be happily retired.

I'll often sit back and let them opine about the ghastly sexism in my sector before I tell them what I do for a living. It's certainly amusing having somebody 'educate' you about your own profession when it's pretty clear they've never set foot on a construction site.

But the likelihood of hearing non-pc things is no doubt higher in the kind of environment I work in. I'll admit that. However, I enjoy the work and like direct communication where I don't have to pander to men. I could find another job in under a week if I wanted so I'm happy to stand up to my employer or have it out with somebody if need be.

It's much better than having to tolerate people you don't like but need to keep on the right side due to your career progression being in their hands. Short of grieviously offending a site manager it doesn't really matter whether I'm 'agreeable' so long as I can do my job. And things won't change if women aren't prepared to do men's jobs, so you're either somebody that does it or you're somebody that moans about lack of representation whilst making every excuse under the sun why you couldn't possibly do it yourself (not directing this at you personally).

It's certainly amusing having somebody 'educate' you about your own profession when it's pretty clear they've never set foot on a construction site.

The thing is that I did set foot on a building site, hard hat, high viz, steelies, gloves, and about 100 sets of plastic shoe covers for when we went out of the unfinished bit into the finished bit where the carpets were down. And I went there to do a "man's job" with an otherwise male team. I was extremely frustrated not to be allowed to return to do the bulk of the rolling out and at the same time I recognise that my boss made the right call, becaue he had a duty of care towards me.

I noticed that the pornographic graffiti got freshly painted over when our (the client's) managerial types were due to visit, because I went over with them to do some fiddly stuff that I'm the subject expert for. So clearly, the building site management knew that letting it stay there was wrong, but they let it stay there anyway until some boss types were due to inspect. What does that say about how the site management think of their own female office employees, and also about me?

Getting ribbed for your reversing isn't the same pornographic graffiti, at all.

As I said, I wasn't specifically referring to you. I don't know what type of sites you work on but I can't remember having seen pornographic graffiti at any of the sites I've been at. You can't just grab a spraycan and start vandalising the new halls of residence/bridge/etc you've just built. You'd be sacked for gross misconduct and the lads wouldn't be happy with you because we'd probs all get a talking to.

That kind of thing would get removed immediately at the places I work. Given that they build temporary ramps etc and demolish them shortly after or tip away thousands of pounds of excess concrete they wouldn't bat an eyelid at using a bit of paint or sanding it off.

Only graffiti I can remember is somebody writing "ground workers am fat and lazy" on a portaloo with a black marker (clearly written by a yam yam). Tbh I laughed.

Do you really think it's better to have a persecution complex than to be resilient and just do what you want regardless of the dickheads that'll always be present in society? I couldn't live my life like that.

Would you say that to someone of colour who was facing BNP type graffiti indicating violence which pornography often does?

Several men had used pens to write graphic sexual descriptions of what they wanted to do to their female site office colleagues on the chipboard used to line out a lift to protect it during during construction. No spray can required.

"Persecution complex". Accusations of not being resilient. To a survivor of repeated sexual violence.

Wow.

Nah, I don't think I'll be taking life lessons from someone who has such a shocking lack of understanding of just how much resilience an autistic survivor of childhood SA has to have in order to keep on going every day, get a degree, and keep a job.

He can speak for himself. Nobody can speak for anyone else. You also believed a trans man's experience, despite them not actually being a man either, so which is it?

You also believed a trans man's experience

A woman who has experience of elevated testosterone levels can speak for the experience of elevated T levels. And men have concurred with her.

Have you ever taken T?

It's not all about you. You've no idea what anybody else on this thread has been through. My points are more about this odd desire to instil fear into women and the apparent hostility directed at women who choose not to live their lives in fear.