RSPB again

[mopu]

the RSPB are STILL organising walks for women, but including anyone who identifies as a woman.
They got lots of pushback from women last time they advertised walks like this. I imagine their team is activist heavy and don’t think the law applies to them:

https://events.rspb.org.uk/events/142397?fbclid=IwRlRTSAPR4cJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEenjf6ymXX5V2h5lLVJxwhO7mUalqpr8sy7ay0pyHoV3CvjpVhbfRYE3eDYj4_aem_Sdxu7EXLndHlk9ztqXGS-Q

😂
Imagine openly displaying your ignorance of the law, facts and science in an attempt to "gotcha' someone. Oh dear.

Yeah - I was thinking, why do they need to have women only walks anyway? There really is no reason that everything they do should not just be open to the general public.

I sometimes find this in my workplace, they want to host events for special groups, when when you actually look at the event, there is no reason that it should be limited at all, it is something that everyone could enjoy and no reason to target it at any specific demographic group. It's usually just because they seem to be unable to see that "people who might like to meet up for a card party every week" is enough of a group without dividing them by sex, age, race, or sexuality.

I've emailed the RSPB listing the following issues:

• Are your volunteers really female or do they also just identify as female?
• vulnerable women who deliberately choose a women's only walk because they're scared of men could feel very threatened by walking around the open countryside with men;
• a woman could turn up and find herself the only woman there surrounded by a bunch of blokes;
• it's discriminatory to only allow men who 'identify' as women and not to allow men who don't;
• you are breaking the 2010 Equality law by allowing men into a woman only space'
• It's not part of your charity charter to promote Trans ideology

I'm so annoyed with the RSPB, I've been member for decades so would be very sad to have to cancel my membership but I've told them that depending on their response I will ...... and I will!

I don't think a women-only bird walk (under any definition of 'women') is legal. It's direct sex discrimination in the provision of a service, and it appear to meet none of the gateway conditions in Schedule 3 of EA2010 that would make that discrimination legal.

They would try to argue that a mixed-sex bird walk service would be "less effective" than a single sex one, that a single sex service is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. But unless there's some hidden purpose for a bird walk other than to look at birds while walking it would be a very difficult row to hoe, I think.

Is it time for this again?

It'll be to get more women to join. I suspect this centre has few women compared with the other centres who arent offering the walk.

Id love to go on a quiet country walk to watch birds with other women. I wouldn't go if men were involved though.

Why do they do stuff like this?! I'm so sick of getting excited to see a women's group or activity advertised and then find in actual fact, men are also allowed. 🙄

Yes, that seems plausible. Kind of like when they have playgroups for SAHDs. Although there are other ways to approach that issue which don't run into the issue of women's walks that they feel the need to include men on.

Re: the RSPB's reasons for having a 'women only' walk in the first place...

I'm a birdwatcher. Birdwatching is quite male-dominated. I do remember reading an article somewhere (maybe even the RSPB's own magazine??) about women birdwatchers feeling unsafe walking around nature reserves on their own. So I can sort of see why a woman might want to join a group walk

Whether said group walk needs to be woman only is another question. And, of course, if they allow men to join then it isn't

This chimes in with my observations. DH is an avid birder and occasionally I’ve accompanied him on a day out to see a Rare one that has turned up, if it happens to be somewhere interesting. Inevitably the birdwatchers we see there are overwhelmingly nerdy white men in the age range of 45-75. Many of them seem to be a bit socially awkward and take a mild acknowledgement to be an invitation to talk enthusiastically at you, and can be a bit overbearing. Even DH has observed that in some hides some men will pick a spot right next to him instead one of the other free benches. Probably because it has the best angle to see the bird, but DH doesn’t like his personal space being invaded so can well understand why some women would find that intimidating.

i see plenty of women volunteers at the big RSPB centres, but lone birding seems to be a male preserve. So 10/10 for the idea, 0/10 for the execution. It would only take one male participant to dominate the whole group and negate the whole point of the female single sex activity.

I disagree, I think it could be argued to be proportionate, assuming it is not the only walks they offer.

It’s frustrating. I complained to RSPB about a year ago about this. They said they were ‘waiting for updated guidance from the EHRC’ before deciding what to do. I said they didn’t have to wait, that the law was clear already, but they didn’t care.

I almost cancelled my membership over it, and we have been members for years.

They offer men-only walks too at some reserves.

They also offer events open to children aged eg 8-12. Do you think adults should be able to crash those too?

Why is a mixed sex birdwalk less effective than a single sex one? How do the birds know which is which, and why are they less visible if men are present?

They would try to argue that a mixed-sex bird walk service would be "less effective" than a single sex one, that a single sex service is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

Then they would be correct in their understanding that a lot of thoroughly disreputable and disgraceful organisations and companies will routinely tell blatant lies in order to deceive supporters and customers into coming to them, under false pretences.

Not that different in principle from the people in scam call centres who have found that claiming to be from their bank will be far more effective in getting money from vulnerable people than it would if they were honest and said "Good day, I am a scammer and I want to take your life savings from you."

Quoting myself - I attached a timely cartoon but it hasn’t posted. I guess it was deemed unacceptable 🤨

How on earth can a man OR a woman who flagrantly denies what sex they are be more comfortable in a woman-only space?

A man can never legitimately be in a woman-only space, as his very presence nullifies that; and even if a woman claims to be non-binary - i.e. stating loudly and clearly (albeit non-factually) "I am NOT a woman" , why on earth would she actively seek out a space that she has determinedly self-identified out of?

Just another example of people claiming to be persecuted victims unless they're allowed to take other people's rights away from them to add on to their own already equivalent rights. Literally declaring that one of two people given half a cake is being treated unfairly, and the only way to make it 'fair' to them is to take half of the other person's half and make theirs up to three quarters, whilst insisting that the person who now only has a quarter of the cake IS still being treated 'fairly'.

oh god give it a rest. or, better yet, organise your own bird walk and invite whoever you want. I honestly can't see how this affects you in any way. Don't want to go on the walk with that group of people? don't go. sorted.

The point has soared over your head as gracefully as an eagle @FlayOtters

I dont think it has, I'm just so bored of clicking on threads on here that sound like they are about on e thing and finding that it's yet another person having a shitfit about trans people.

and you came on to the feminism sex and gender discussion forum to say that? 🙄

I didn't, no, it was on trending which is where I tend to see threads

🙄🤣

Glad that's amused you, guessing it's easily done.

Additionally, women have the "right" not to be a member at a gym with unlawfully-mixed sex changing, the "right" not to work at a workplace which has unlawful mixed sex toilet and changing facilities, and the "right" not to compete in sports competitions where men are included in the women's events. Also, the right not to go to a women's prison where men are also kept. (Ok, no wait, women don't actually have that right. Women have to go to prisons where men are.)

What with all these rights we have, who needs more?