Interesting talk with Lionel Shriver and Stella O'Malley(Genspect)

[BruachAbhann]

I just watched this talk with Lionel Shriver filmed at the Genspect conference in America. It was interesting to hear how they both thought the trans movement will come to an end. Lionel Shriver predicts it will just fade out as something people are embarrassed about ever having believed in. Stella O'Malley thinks it will be more like how The Troubles in Northern Ireland was resolved. Neither side was happy with the details of the peace process and she predicts it will be a similar scenario as trans idealogy is so embedded in education, politics, medicine etc.

I think eventually it will fade out but it will take a long time- like lobotomies of the 1950's, and that there will be generations affected by it.

I don't see the situation changing a greet deal from what we have now - there be a large number of men who cling to the identity because it provides them a venue to publicly exercise an erotic interest and there will be a continual pipeline of FTM detransitioners who gradually come to believe the long term physically punishing and emotionally taxing costs of transition out-weight the benefits.

Changes in law and especially, how it's adhered to will hopefully make women and girls think twice about committing to the more extreme forms of 'affirmative care' and will hopefully keep men from practicing their female performance in single sex public spaces. The later will be a long term, up hill battle to be fought every step of the way.

I'm a male (is this rare on MN?). So, at first glance, the literal worst that can happen to me personally is some social embarrassment if a transman walks into my toilet. That's it, just a temporary jarring of emotions. Gone the moment he or I walk out.
Basically nothing compared to the compromise women have had to endure.
But for me at any rate, there is actually another "worst". It's the loss of trust in institutions, the hardening up of my politics, the lack of faith in established systems of politics, the bad taste this leaves in my mouth.

Not actually so unusual - welcome!

I totally agree with the loss of trust thing
And the anxiety of overthinking about who might be in this “women only” space? Never mind what issues arise if a male were in there. It’s grim

ETA it was the did over about the suppression of factual reporting on sex by the BBC and guardian that peaked me. I was and am outraged. It’s a betrayal that I’ll never forgive

“I'm a male (is this rare on MN?).”

No at all. What is rare is men who don’t feel the need to announce it 😏

I feel it’s going to take a bit longer. The way Trump is handling things in USA seems to be drumming up more vocal support from those equating trans rights (and the dilution of women’s rights) to gay rights, which literally gave gays and lesbians the same rights as everyone else.

I’ve seen the same with the SC ruling.

I’m comforted by the more pragmatic views of younger generations, who don’t buy into it all as much as current 17-25 year olds, so that will likely drip feed into society and things will die down a bit.

Only mention it to highlight the chasm of compromise felt re this phenomenon if you're a male or female.
Men...solely social embarrassment.
Women...your whole lives turned upside down.
Trump simply responded to the chaos about him, from Democrats and Title IX, Harris gleefully proclaiming American tax $s would go on transgender (read violent sex offenders) surgery, the fallout of Imane Khelif and the upcoming Olympics on his turf on his watch.
Sure, Trump could always be less bombastic in his language, but what was he gonna do, fightback against the hysterically screaming trans ideologues in the US with a kind word and a sympathetic gesture? The sort that Democrats offered (gender critical) women on their watch?

Oh I agree with you re Trump, but there is a huge backlash because of it which has, I feel, set things back. TBH though the backlash would be the same had he done things in a sensitive manner.

Of course there's a backlash.
When is a rattlesnake at its most vicious? When it's backed up against a wall.
When is a child most likely to have an extended temper tantrum? When he or she is told no more sweets until after dinner.
Whether you talk calmly to the child, or use a stick against the rattlesnake, the result is the same.

Me too @KnottyAuty I do wonder if my new found lack of trust is a good thing on balance. I have also become very aware of women's kindness and tendency to freeze or fawn when faced with danger. I'm not sure how well it serves us.

I agree with both Stella and Lionel. I think it is very embedded and 'trans' will have to be considered by organisations and service providers for ever. However, on an individual basis hopefully were moving to the point where a trans identity is no longer a 'stunning and brave' sign you're incredibly special and can trample over women's rights.

I don’t think there is any chance it will fade away

It's well worth listening to, Lionel Shriver makes a lot of interesting points. She obviously keeps abreast of current affairs generally so doesn't know all the details many of us here will know. I think it makes her perspective valuable as she's more like a normal commentator or politician in terms of details.

Yes hopefully it will go back to being seen as the horrendous emotional torment, upheaval and endurance that it is

instead of being conflated with abuse through crime - crimes consist of people being dishonest - that shouldn’t deny a whole section of society - people adopt many personas to commit crime

the horrendous emotional torment, upheaval and endurance that it is

I'm confused: are you talking about trans identity here?

Trans won't disappear while the GRA and the PC of Gender Reassignment exist. And those who are covered by them will continue lobby parliament to push boundaries.

I hope the idea of the child transitioner will fade, and the 'trans aesthetic' will probably lose its appeal as it goes out of style.

I'll be interested to see what politicans do and say if it goes back to mainly middle age and older men.

It won't go away in the UK while half of the MP's in one of the main stream political parties are all advocates for it, especially if that party is the one in government. With all of the would be politicians in the fringe parties also supporting the ideology, it'll be a long time before this idiocy can be put to rest. Short of a political revolution, we're in this fight for the long haul.

Thank you!

Great talk. Very bracing