URGENT help needed please re college socially transitioning daughter

[ConcernedmumofTIF]

I just typed out a whole long post and it disappeared! I'll start again.

I did post about my daughter a few weeks ago under a different name. I am a long term user but name changed for this for anonymity.

TLDR: my daughter is autistic with health issues and mental health issues and has expressed to college she wants to be called a male name. She has told me she wants hormones and double mastectomy. College is socially transitioning her and are using the male name in her official EHCP review documents. I asked them not to but they are ignoring me. What do I do next? I have to reply TODAY as they break up for Christmas this afternoon. Should I raise a saeguarding concern or should I wait and see what happens with the finalised document? (And does anyone know if I can appeal it if they include this other name in it?)

Longer story: she first expressed a non binary identity 2-3 years ago and we talked amicably about it, she knows I am gender critical and I explained why I hold my views, and why I wouldn't use the male name. She seemed OK with this and we have a very close relationship as I am also her carer and she wants me to handle lots of things for her - we talk a lot and spend time together daily doing cetain things she likes as a daily ritual.

Since then, she has obviously become more radicalised (evident in the way she talks about trans although interestingly she was unaware of the Tavistock, or Cass Review, or much of the key stuff) and has said she now identifies as a man, but also as a lesbian (but in a queer way, apparently) and wants hormones and a double mastectomy.

I am deeply concerned that college socially transitioning her is legitimising these desires and also isolating her from us as her family by being all "we will support you when your parents won't".

I have the Bayswater Group guide on safeguarding and have also put my daughter on the waiting list with a therapist who understands the dangers of all of this but they can't see her until March.

I just don't know what to do. I feel sick seeing this other name on offical documents and knowing the damage that is doing. My daughter is vulnerable - autistic, disabled with mental health issues and I think also OCD which I am about to contact the GP about as it's only recently I have realised that some of her rituals are more likely OCD than autistic. I feel college have a duty of care not to just socially transtition her.

Please help me work out a good course of action.

This is the college safeguarding policy https://www.activatelearning.ac.uk/app/uploads/sites/2/2021/07/Safeguarding-Policy.pdf

I've also looked at other relevant policies and nothing specifically covers social transition though there is mention of not tolerating "transphobia".

There’s following wishes and there’s re naming the document when there’s been no legal precedent to do so!

To add; from 2026 children will be taught about parental responsibility in RSHE

teachers will not be allowed to teach as fact that everyone has a gender identity

they have to teach that biological sex has different rights afforded to it than people who believe they have a different gender identity

they are not allowed to perpetuate gender stereotypes

the term transphobia doesn’t feature. Homophobia and misogyny do.

So... many... untruths in there, it's staggering. PPs have pointed some of them out already.

What I'd like to remark on is the following two related things:

1. @AidaP did not answer the question that had been asked of them, which was how to identify the kids who are mistaken about thinking they are trans.
2. In fact, they go even further than that, by implying that there are only two categories of children: the immense majority who are right to think they are trans, and the very few ones who are lying about it. There's literally no room for the ones who mistakenly think they are trans.

Also, because it pisses me off:

That's just risk with every treatment and condition, and we do not stop treating other conditions, like depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, because patient may be lying about symptoms

Those other conditions all have objectively observable symptoms. No kid is given medicine because they say they are depressed/bipolar/ADHD! They are given medicine because they exhibit symptoms of these conditions.

Not so with "trans kids", since there are NO such objective symptoms to observe to begin with.

Would she be open to speaking with a therapist? If you join one of the support groups they should be able to signpost you to a non-affirming one. That’s what we did, my DD has not desisted socially with her friends and still dresses very gender neutral which we are obvs absolutely fine with, (but at home and wider family we do not affirm at all and all uni documents (in year 2) are in her original name). She hasn’t progressed to hormones or surgery though which to me is a massive win. It costs mind you, but far better that than the ideology addled NHS/educational system.
She is also autistic, suffers from anxiety and is bi, it’s like a tick list for ROGD girls.

He seems nice.

You mean DSM criteria and symptoms observed by clinician(s) trained in that speciality are not symptoms? Then yes, you are also dismissing ADHD/Autism and other conditions that have no CT scan or blood test or whatever is your new goal post evidence.

And hi new stalkers! Unlike you I don't hide my identity and life, funny how that works! I do enjoy in one post misgendering and insulting someone, while also claiming "good faith". Takes special level of self-gaslighing.

Tbf, autism, adhd, personality disorder, attachment disorder....they are all just diagnosed by subjective analysis and often you get a particular diagnosis because of the specialism of the professional you see.

I have two adopted daughters and both have so many diagnoses - they score on everything they have ever been assessed for. And that's because they were severely traumatised from birth at the hands of their birth parents and they still suffer from the effects of what happened to them.

They have all the symptoms of adhd, learning disabilities, executive functioning disorder, speech and language disorder, adhd, personality disorder, OCD.....

All the professionals disagree with each other, preferring their diagnosis over the others.

And this is typical of kids who present as trans according to the Tavistock figures. 98% had another factor.

They are sad kids for a reason. Saying they tick the boxes for a trans diagnosis is therefore meaningless .

I am very interested by what you say, and can well believe it.

Right, so you with, I am going to guess with 0 formal training in any of it, can decide which condition then is real, or not.

Because you obviously would not be fine if AuADHD kid would be told that: "well, because you maybe both have AU and ADHD, we won't treat either as we cannot confirm they are actually separate"... Right? You don't say that kid should just have some conditions, or all of them, abandoned, just... Well, not sure what do you want done here.

But when it's gender dysphoria, you know categorically that it should just be dumped and cite actually incorrect numbers of 98%, but let's skip that.

Your decision of what to dismiss is entirely arbitrary, which is the opposite of how modern medicine works, especially when treatment is safe, with limited and controllable side effects and easy to get off if proven wrong, aka blockers if you read actual peer review studies.

Yes, I mean those criteria, which all depend entirely on what the child claims, and not at all on observable symptoms.

Autism, on the other hand, has a whole list of observable behaviours. There was no need to ask my son how he felt, to diagnose him as autistic. Observing him was plenty enough.

So does dysphoria, I dare you to actually read DSM and go through the assessment, consider it an experiment, 500-600 quid for a session with private specialist that is actually allowed to attempt a diagnosis.

And just as with say autism, some is very observable, some is not, not all cut from one stone, no matter how much you hope it to be.

I dare you to actually read DSM and go through the assessment,

As you wish.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria in children.

DSM-5-TR diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria in children require ≥ 6 of the following (1 of which must be the first criterion):

• A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
• In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing
• A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
• A strong preference for toys, games, and activities stereotypical for the other gender
• A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
• A strong rejection of toys, games, and activities typical of the gender that matches their birth sex
• A strong dislike of one's sexual anatomy
• A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics that match one's experienced gender

My comments:

• Desire is not an observable behaviour. It's a self-reported feeling.
• Dislikes and preferences are observable. However, all that is observed is that the child does not align with the stereotypical behaviours socially expected from their sex. Thus the problem here lies not with the child, but with the expectations put on them. Pathologising the child when the problem lies with society is obviously abysmally wrong.
• Moreover, plenty of chidren are gender-non-conforming, yet don't grow up to be trans. Thus assuming that a GNC child is trans is a basic error in logic.

Do I believe that children can diagnosed with what the ICD calls (more appropriately in my opinion) "gender incongruence of childhood"? Absolutely. However this incongruence points to the problem of society expecting gender congruence in the first place. Thus, it's society which needs treatment, not the child.

Well said.

As an additional thought, it's a bit grim that the description for "boys (assigned gender)" uses the term cross-dressing and talks about "simulating female attire".

If they wanted to avoid any potential for linking this to transvestic fetishism, you'd think it would mirror the description for "girls (assigned gender)" e.g.

• In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical feminine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical masculine clothing; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing

I appreciate others have probably picked up on this before and I haven't seen those posts. But it's the first time I've really looked at that bullet in detail, despite having seen the DSM criteria before. It feels like it was staring me in the face and I couldn't see it. It's very clearly a description of performative behaviour in a way that the description for "girls (assigned gender)" isn't. Euw.

I'm simply making the point it's all based on subjectivity. There are many, many criticisms of the DSM - it puts little boxes around groups of symptoms. Maybe what we are really dealing with in many cases is distress.

Fact is, anyone could present with and be diagnosed with gender dysmorphia just by being committed to getting the diagnosis or having been trained to believe it by a parent.

Fact is, anyone could present with and be diagnosed with gender dysmorphia just by being committed to getting the diagnosis or having been trained to believe it by a parent.

Yep. The bar is incredibly low.

It's an open door to parents who are homophobic, who are worried that their "non-conforming child" might grow up to be gay. They've got a great opportunity to teach them from an early age how to meet this criteria and therefore become "straight".

It's also an open door to any parents or carers (e.g. supervisors in the care system) of boys, who they think of a cross-dressers that are simulating female attire 🤢, who might have more nefarious motives towards young boys and vulnerable young men.

I remember an interview that Ritchie Herron did with Benjamin Boyce where he said he was pretty shocked at the number of older males (with their genitals still intact) who were encouraging young gender-dysphoric males like himself to go for the op when he joined support groups. He was reflecting on how he hadn't understood the motivation behind this at the time and only did so with hindsight. It must have seemed pretty obvious afterwards, in an incredibly painful way (😥) that had these supposedly caring mentors been genuine, they themselves could have had the op at any time. But no, they chose instead to dedicate their time to manipulating encouraging younger males to do it.

The NHS uses ICD 11 for diagnosis, not DSM.

Check that definition. Note the exclusion.

Here is a quick critique of the DSM and diagnosis of psychological problems generally.

www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung-rvo1&source=android-browser&q=criticisms+of+the+dsm+5

Oh. I hadnt noticed that asymmetry before. Well spotted.

'In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing'

That is interesting.

It just shocks me again every time I read this (the criteria)

Very succinct responses to all the points. Thank you seethlaw.

That you are a man is simply a matter of fact. If you take this as an insult, that's on you.

The DSM looks like it was written in an era long ago, either that or by people who live in a world who wished we did.

The definition in the DSM5 was changed, in part, because transgender and human rights advocates actively lobbied the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to declassify gender variance as a mental illness altogether.

This is why we now have TRAs screeching that it is not a mental health condition and it's an innate characteristic, when it is very clearly a mental health condition in many of the people who ID as trans.

I've come back to this thread because the college has now started using this nickname on her official documents and I don't know what to do. It's not her name!

Don't know what to suggest, but just saw this and commenting to bump for you OP.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.