Sex Matters - Hampstead Heath Ponds -

[SexRealismBeliefs]

Sex Matters, a charity that campaigns for single-sex rights, will argue that the City of London Corporation is breaching equality law by allowing trans women to use Kenwood Ladies’ Pond on Hampstead Heath.

Hearing this Wednesday.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/cceca8ca-4167-4b04-875a-40ddacfea782?shareToken=e9fe25a546d20835f1a5a66564cbf27b

That was my first thought 38,000? No way most of those are real

Here's a link to the consultation findings. I don't know if this link has already been posted but I'm posting it here because it's not that easy to find on their website:

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/hampstead-heath/activities-at-hampstead-heath/swimming-at-hampstead-heath/hampstead-heath-bathing-ponds-consultation

The PDF report:
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/Green-Spaces/Ponds-Consultation-Report.pdf

That’s my interpretation too, just wary of stating it as fact when there is no case law.

That’s odd, it still works fine for me. Google usually works if MN doesn’t.

Clearly the consultation stats are almost entirely valueless, but I have a 70-something female friend who swims in the Ladies' Pond and she and her friends are all fine with allowing TW in and say that it's only a minority of regular users who are unhappy with this.

Of course there are probably women who are unhappy but wouldn't say, so I'm not suggesting that this is scientific either, but I don't think we should assume that the majority of regular users want to exclude TW. (Of course they might change their mind if confronted with one of the more aggressive exhibitionist TW who pop up in some places.)

Does your friend accept that there are women who can't use the pond if these men are allowed to?

And even if it's only a few - other women's consent is not the luxury belief contingent's to give away.

Thanks, I remember some of these threads now. Why would we believe them now when they so obviously lied then? 🙄

Participation in the consultation was on a self-selecting basis. The findings in the report, therefore, carry the unavoidable risk of self-selection bias and are, therefore, not generalisable to the overall population.

'Nuff said

@JoanOgden
I would bet folding money that your friend has never actually encountered a TIM in the ponds or anywhere else and her acceptance is all theoretical. When you meet an AGP in the wild, it's... enlightening.

Poll in Metro online. Probably as representative as any poll in which participants self-select 😘

What is your opinion on the decision to uphold trans-inclusive policies at Hampstead Heath Ponds?

• I fully support the decision for inclusivity.
• 25%
• I am concerned about safety and privacy implications.
• 64%
• I have a mixed opinion on this matter.
• 7%
• I don't have an opinion on this issue.
• 4%

https://metro.co.uk/2026/01/29/hampstead-ladies-pond-trans-inclusive-see-26592117/?fbclid=IwRlRTSAPpN9xleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeD3uRI6-WXV3Wcra2JZVeQEaqsEfXhZ4kv7nvgJtR7VCgCx_nL2ksLedzNWA_aem_15sEg_p9PDskHRhTay4H2A

Does you friend realise that most users she knows are ok with TW because most of the user that aren't, aren't users anymore? Her experience is the consequence of being a mixed sex pond, the women leave because they have been told they are wrong and bigots.

I've met a few TW in the wild who have been absolutely fine, and I think the same is true of my friend. Of course, as I said in my post, her views might change if she met one of the, er, not-fine TW.

I'm not defending my friend's views but I do think there is a tendency on this board to assume that the overwhelming majority of women want single-sex services (whatever that type of service might be), whereas this is not my experience in real life.

I'm not defending my friend's views but I do think there is a tendency on this board to assume that the overwhelming majority of women want single-sex services (whatever that type of service might be), whereas this is not my experience in real life.

Yes, I swim in the Ladies' pond from time to time (in heatwaves!) and I'm not that bothered about it being single-sex. In the poll I voted that all three ponds should be mixed-sex - it seemed like the simplest solution, and it would be nice to have the choice of ponds to swim in.

When it comes to consent it doesn't matter if it's a majority. If a 'Ladies' pond allows TIMs in and one woman cannot swim in it (whether for religious/cultural/past-trauma reasons, or for reasons of privacy and dignity), other women who do not have or do not wish to act on those reasons/feelings have consented for her. In what other day-to-day scenario can someone consent for someone else?

it would be nice to have the choice of ponds to swim in.
Everyone already has the choice of two: the pond for their sex, or the mixed pond. Why do you need all three at the expense of single-sex ones? If men get to swim in the Ladies' Pond (and indeed women get to swim in the Men's), no one has the option of swimming in the pond for their sex and knowing that it will be exclusively people of their sex who are permitted to swim in there.

I've met a few TW in the wild who have been absolutely fine, and I think the same is true of my friend. Of course, as I said in my post, her views might change if she met one of the, er, not-fine TW.

the thing is, for me it doesn't really matter how "fine" they are. I've worked with several TW over the years in different projects and they've all been "fine" but the bottom line for me is that they think womanhood is a series of female stereotypes to be performed. I just can't get past the inherent massive sexism that reduces women to a performance that men can act out whatever their motivation for doing that is

When it comes to consent it doesn't matter if it's a majority. If a 'Ladies' pond allows TIMs in and one woman cannot swim in it (whether for religious/cultural/past-trauma reasons, or for reasons of privacy and dignity), other women who do not have or do not wish to act on those reasons/feelings have consented for her.

I'm not consenting on anyone's behalf. The survey asked what I wanted, not what I thought other women would want.

I think the days of the single-sex pond are over, tbh. The world has moved on.

I'm not consenting on anyone's behalf. The survey asked what I wanted, not what I thought other women would want.
That's disingenuous. I wasn't referring to what you personally said; I was addressing consent in the context of the discussion point of whether or not the ponds should remain single-sex.

I think the days of the single-sex pond are over, tbh. The world has moved on.

that will not please TRA, they need there to be a pond only for women so they can be validated by using it. If they all become just boring everyday mixed sex pond, that won't be any fun at all

Yes exactly, I think it would take a lot of the heat and bad feelings out of the picture.

It's unlikely to happen, though, so the argument will continue to rumble on

It doesn't matter how they feel, they cannot make that decision for other women.

I think the days of the single-sex pond are over, tbh. The world has moved on.

But it hasn't. There are Muslim and Jewish women and traumatised women and proposal others who cannot swim in a Hampstead pond because it is not single sex.

That's an ongoing situation and given there are 3 ponds, it's not right

Surely 'the simplest solution' in any cases like this is to stick to the obvious, established configuration of men's, women's and mixed sex, and use the Supreme Court's definition of these terms. That provides for 100% of users.

Any woman who is not bothered about having a women-only pond can use the women's pond or the mixed sex one, so they're not being disadvantaged in any way by the existence of a women-only one.

Exactly this. It seems entirely proportionate to me to provide a pond for each sex and a mixed one.