Simon Jenkins - reliably wrong

[rebax]

A piece in the Guardian today:
The few trans people I have encountered are discreet. They avoid controversial situations and do not march for “trans rights”. They understand that they are exceptional and that it will take time for many others to accept them for who they are.
Rights are always sensitive, but there should be few cases that require litigation.

Yes there should, and if the males in their scenario kept to their lane there wouldn't be any litigation

Can you imagine the following: ‘I was a friend of one of the blokes who used to play one of the black and white minstrels. He was a dear man who meant no harm. He is entitled to dignity and respect.’ You’re not planning on running that column and time soon, are you Guardian? Why not?

"it will take time for many others to accept them for who they are."

It is literally impossible to support gender ideology without being absolutely contradictory / dishonest.

No, Simon, I - and everyone else you are referring to - accepted years ago that a man who puts on a dress is a man who puts on a dress. It is you and them who seem determined to never ever ever accept them for who they are.

Does he support allowing organisations to decide for themselves whether to allow ethnic minority customers or staff, or whether it should tolerate LGB people drinking with straight people?

Why should women be the only group who rights are dependent on whether companies and other organisations regard them as worthy of having rights?

Older white man, presumably adequately financially cushioned to not have to face the realities of this

The transwoman he knew personally was simply lovely, of course

The few other trans people he has encountered are discreet

It's just like the previous situation with gay people, immigrants and some religious minorities

Why do women and girls want their own SSS anyway, the big meanies

Common sense must be with Sumption. Sex as defined as biological sex should clearly apply to physical sports, but less so to most women’s clubs or job quotas or competitions or restaurant loos.

I want to ask him: why should biological sex "clearly" apply to physical sports?

The few trans people I have encountered are discreet. They avoid controversial situations and do not march for “trans rights”.

Then what about going to one of those trans rights marches, and meet a very different kind of trans people?

This guy is the epitome of "I live in my own little bubble and I don't want to learn more about the big wide world out there, but I still think my very little-informed opinion is obviously the right one".

This guy is the epitome of "I live in my own little bubble and I don't want to learn more about the big wide world out there, but I still think my very little-informed opinion is obviously the right one".

Absolutely, @Seethlaw

Rights are always sensitive, but there should be few cases that require litigation.

Sure. As long as we litigate every single time a man goes into a woman's space, it's all fine.

Although, I suspect by 'discreet', the reporter means yes of course they use women's spaces, but I like them, so who cares.

Gosh, he has stepped into this debate eight years too late, hasn't he? It's as if he hasn't any knowledge or understanding of what's been going on since 2017: the number of women sacked or disciplined for their beliefs, the extreme abuse and harassment, women being thrown off social media for referring to a man as "he", the assaults, the use of the police to intimidate women, the numerous court cases, the teenage girls having mastectomies, the Keira Bell case, the Cass Review...I could go on.

Lots wrong here, and the bit about job quotas is particularly annoying for some reason (why does he think they even exist?), but what really caught my eye is that he regularly socialised with Jan Morris, and actually thought he was a woman. Is this a perceptual problem? Men can't sex people accurately? Kemp J seems to have had the same issue with Upton. (The Judge in Kelly was female, but there were no trans witnesses in that case.)

Children between the ages of 3 and 6 think you can change sex by changing hair or clothing. Maybe Jenkins, Kemp, and the transmaidens are stuck at that stage of brain development.

At the point a man marches into a women's single sex space he has chosen to push himself, contraversially, with his beliefs, over her.

And at that point it is not about 'expecting others to accept them as they are', because he is signally failing to reciprocally accept women as they are. It's about managing to have some equality of respect and consideration for other humans instead of selfish entitlement, a demand for submission, and a belief in being 'exceptional', 'special' and basically entitled to the uncomplaining service and use of women.

What a lot of nonsense.

is it 2018 again?? The ghost of trans commentary pieces past?

interesting that they've trotted out Jenkins for this rather than one of their usual crew of TRA go tos. I've always assumed Jenkins role at the guardian is to play that of the token centre rightish commentator so they can say they're definitely not an echo chamber

Jenkins take is tiresomely predictable. Of course he knows only lovely kind TW and being a man it's no skin off his nose if they're in women's spaces anyway. I mean why can't room just be kind eh?

There's a story about Jan Morris, which I've shared on here before, about him inviting a prospective biographer for lunch, and when at the end the guest offered to help clear the dishes, Morris said,"No, leave it for the women."

Can't find the link, so probably not the exact quote, but it casts doubt on the idea that Morris considered himself a woman.

You know, I was going to write a whole thing here quoting his article and making the same logical arguments against his smae tired talking points but I don't need to bc the big glaring point of this article is that it is written by yet another MAN telling the rest of us what we must think and feel. For a MAN to say, "gee I know a few trans people and they don't bother me so all these women shouldn't have an issue with them being in their locker rooms or taking jobs meant for them" - well obviously no you wouldn't Simon bc your rights and safety aren't the ones being put at risk. You're not the physically weaker person who's being told they must endure humiliation at best - to significant risk to their physical safety at worst - in order to literally make these "precious few" people feel better and "have dignity." None of this is about you, Simon. None of this impacts or effects you in the least, and for you to have the nerve to attempt to influence this conversation when you literally have no skin in the game is, well, exactly what a self-righteous, morally-superior, luxury-belief swilling MAN would say. You're the reason why women have to fight harder, get louder, and never, ever wheesht. So go ahead, Simon, submit your little article and sip your scotch in front of your fireplace and pat yourself on the back for being a privileged, oh-so-kind, intellectually-superior white man for telling us dumb how we should think and feel. But you've done nothing but prove yet again how misogyny is so deeply embedded everywhere from extreme right to elitist liberals.

Yes, I think there’s a lot of evidence that Morris’s wife continued to shoulder the ‘wife work’.

I wonder if Jenkins has ever talked to any transwidows?

What a load of twaddle. So it’s up to each institution whether or not to let men in to spaces labelled as women’s. How would that work in practice? Each time I go to a women’s toilet I have to ask what the landlord / restaurant owner/ head teacher/ shopping centre manager / hospital CEO what they mean by women? Then are they allowed to change their definition week to week?
And as if women actually wanted to go to court! We have asked nicely many times. I’m sure in some cases women have been told ‘fine, we’ll keep the women’s spaces single sec’ and we don’t hear about those. But many other women have been punished for asking or told ‘no, suck it up’. Courses really are the last resort for women who want SSS.

I found the link to the anecdote:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article/the-times-diary-johnson-girls-luxury-poesy-n6mntkwvk?

For those without a subscription:

'Jan Morris was transsexual long before it was fashionable, but there were aspects of the author’s old life that she didn’t easily let go. In An Unanchored Heart, a new memoir by Rory Knight Bruce, he writes about having lunch with Morris at her home in Wales, at the end of which he began to clear the dishes. “Sit down,” Morris ordered. “That is woman’s work.” She then remained sitting while the table was cleared by her wife, Elizabeth. There are some things a Casablanca surgeon can’t remove.'

Reliably wrong sums it up. There’s no subject that he takes up that he isn’t both stupid and wrong about.

Jan Morris was quite the piece of work. It always amazed me how certain male celebs would fawn over him. I think it was the combination of upper-class male arrogance and feminine mannerisms.

If Simon's argument boils down to "I know a few old-school transsexuals and they aren't like that" - well, so do I. So do many of us.

I often think of a couple of old friends who are, in old money, gay male transsexuals. One is that extremely rare thing, a transwoman who passes well. The other really doesn't. Both of them would go out of their way to avoid causing alarm or distress.

Do I think they should use female facilities? No. If I were only thinking of myself, I wouldn't be bothered, but I have to think of the rest of you, and you've only got my word for it that they're harmless.

And, unlike Simon Jenkins, I have noticed the fetishists and the activist loonies and the mentally distressed teenage girls. I don't extrapolate from the nice unassuming transwomen I know and assume they're the norm. I know and they know that they're not.

I feel sorry for my friends that TRA extremism fucked up the tolerance they depended on, but we gave an inch and the TRAs took a mile and we will have to take the whole mile back, and I am very relaxed about that making Simon Jenkins sad.

How likely is it that Jan Morris told friends about his fantasies, why he wants to be a woman and what he thinks of women.

I believe simon jenkins and stephen fry when they saw Morris as a good egg. He will have been to them.

These men say very different things on anonymous forums. Some of then will be old school trans.

He’s reliably wrong on passports too. A letter from a doctor is one of the things that can be used if a person doesn’t have a GRC.

As I recall, Jan Morris's daughter didn't think he was very nice at all.

Yes this. Just compare it with his hot takes on how universities should work now, based on no apparent familiarity with this beyond his own experience at Oxford in 1987 or some such.

One wonders if this "commentator " has ever heard of Bash Back, seen the criminal damage caused by trans identifiedmen, seen any footage of let women speak meetings, etc etc. Given that the man known as Lyndsay Watson "transitioned" many years ago and so is, presumably, "true trans", then this chap needs to open his eyes and preferably close his mouth.

Ah I see, this is yet another tiresome example of "bros before hoes."

Off you fuck Simon, and take your c2018 TA talking points with you cause they won't wash now.