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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Simon Jenkins - reliably wrong

92 replies

rebax · 12/12/2025 10:50

A piece in the Guardian today:
The few trans people I have encountered are discreet. They avoid controversial situations and do not march for “trans rights”. They understand that they are exceptional and that it will take time for many others to accept them for who they are.
Rights are always sensitive, but there should be few cases that require litigation.

Trans rights should be a private affair. A toxic debate does no one any favours | Simon Jenkins

The courts are a clumsy means to negotiate social relationships. Let organisations make up their own minds about inclusion, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/dec/12/trans-rights-private-toxic-debate-courts-inclusion

OP posts:
Maryberrysbouffant · 13/12/2025 14:15

Oh that’s ok then. The few men I know are lovely, therefore we can chuck safeguarding out the window altogether.

Catiette · 13/12/2025 14:35

I know, it's remarkable.

And all predicated on the male perspective - to ME they're lovely, to ME they're women, according to THEM they need access, in THEIR minds they're women - with nary a thought or acknowledgement of women having a perspective on this themselves.

Which, given the article was spurred by the Peggie case, is something of a glaring omission! (An omission I suspect would be seen as shameful were it another protected characteristic, eg. race, disability etc., that were being disregarded).

Oldandgreyer · 13/12/2025 14:40

Let him sob. He doesn't appear to understand that women do not want any men in their single-sex spaces.

nicepotoftea · 13/12/2025 14:40

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 13/12/2025 13:36

It's just a different frame of reference then: one that can only be adopted by someone not viscerally aware of the power differential between the sexes. In other words, a man, or a lucky and unimaginative woman.

I think it's a completely different frame of reference.

Basically, dividing the world into men and non-men.

junglejunglebear · 13/12/2025 14:42

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 12/12/2025 13:09

How likely is it that Jan Morris told friends about his fantasies, why he wants to be a woman and what he thinks of women.

I believe simon jenkins and stephen fry when they saw Morris as a good egg. He will have been to them.

These men say very different things on anonymous forums. Some of then will be old school trans.

I think they saw him as exactly what he was - a man - and prioritised him accordingly.

It's not about seeing men who pretend to be women as women. It's about how they see women - which is as background noise.

nicepotoftea · 14/12/2025 10:08

https://x.com/treesey/status/1999603905332723871/photo/1

Jill Tweedie writing about 'Conundrum' in the Guardian in 1974

An old fashioned kind of feminist who believed sexist stereotypes were bad.

Seethlaw · 14/12/2025 10:37

nicepotoftea · 14/12/2025 10:08

https://x.com/treesey/status/1999603905332723871/photo/1

Jill Tweedie writing about 'Conundrum' in the Guardian in 1974

An old fashioned kind of feminist who believed sexist stereotypes were bad.

Wow! So good, and so fully relevant still to today's situation. I find myself wanting to quote so many bits of it, as they are incredibly insightful indeed.

nicepotoftea · 14/12/2025 10:38

Seethlaw · 14/12/2025 10:37

Wow! So good, and so fully relevant still to today's situation. I find myself wanting to quote so many bits of it, as they are incredibly insightful indeed.

I know! I just think what went wrong?

moto748e · 14/12/2025 10:40

In 1974 things generally looked like they were going in the right direction. Unlike now. What Jill Tweedie would make of the world now, God knows.

Grammarnut · 14/12/2025 13:46

hholiday · 12/12/2025 10:55

Can you imagine the following: ‘I was a friend of one of the blokes who used to play one of the black and white minstrels. He was a dear man who meant no harm. He is entitled to dignity and respect.’ You’re not planning on running that column and time soon, are you Guardian? Why not?

I don't see the Grauniad running that one, even thought without doubt the Black and White Minstrels were not meaning any harm (just wanting employment) and most of them (as far as actors go) were probably nice people.

Grammarnut · 14/12/2025 13:55

RoyalCorgi · 12/12/2025 12:14

There's a story about Jan Morris, which I've shared on here before, about him inviting a prospective biographer for lunch, and when at the end the guest offered to help clear the dishes, Morris said,"No, leave it for the women."

Can't find the link, so probably not the exact quote, but it casts doubt on the idea that Morris considered himself a woman.

He was an AGP. Once he died some less than laudatory tales came out. I remember him appearing on TV and being describes as the 70s equivalent of 'stunning and brave'. I seem to remember him reading a story...long time ago.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 14/12/2025 14:08

RoyalCorgi · 12/12/2025 15:20

That phrase "give me the confidence of a mediocre white man" is often unfair, but seems deserved in this case. It's not just being white, of course, it's having the kind of privileged background where you learn to assume that you are cleverer and better-informed than everyone else, even if you have no experience of the topic at hand and even if you haven't bothered to research it or find out anything about it. You see it in people like Boris Johnson and David Cameron and, well, anyone from that kind of background, really. They've been told all their lives that they're special and it has never occurred to them that it might not be true.

Simon Jenkins has written several columns for the Guardian about why maths shouldn't be compulsory in school, because it doesn't have any use outside school. His absolute ignorance is no bar at all to his belief that he's right.

Seriously? That's so wrong headed it's actually hilarious. And I say that as a woman who's pretty shit at maths.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 14/12/2025 17:15

nicepotoftea · 14/12/2025 10:08

https://x.com/treesey/status/1999603905332723871/photo/1

Jill Tweedie writing about 'Conundrum' in the Guardian in 1974

An old fashioned kind of feminist who believed sexist stereotypes were bad.

Fabulous article. I particularly liked the expression 'a convert to womanhood'. I think I'll magpie that, should the situation arise.

borntobequiet · 14/12/2025 18:42

WaterThyme · 12/12/2025 20:48

I wonder if Jenkins is from the same world as this corker of a programme from BBC2 in 1973:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4

about the Transex Liberation Group? As you watch it, do count (A) how many women appear and (B) how often the participants consider how women might be affected as opposed to (C) men being affected.

Answers: A - 0; B - never; C - yes, worries about deception

My 1973 self (aged 20) would have written these off as dreadful old frumps, whether female or pretending to be female. And I’d have been right.

moto748e · 14/12/2025 19:53

Hinge and Bracket! 😁

Wetoldyousaurus · 15/12/2025 01:33

Simon being so keen to keep women’s rights private and out of the law are reminiscent of how reluctant society was to bring rape within marriage and domestic violence into the public sphere. It seems it is of great interest to these men to stop women from airing the dirty laundry of TRA in the public forum of our courts. His declarations that laws and court cases which seek to confirm women’s rights to gather and deal with personal hygiene away from men are necessarily ‘bad’ laws, and that these issues are best dealt with by individual women pleading for respite (and only in extraordinary circumstances) echo those of his counterparts in the 70s and 80s who were always very keen to keep the state out of ‘family matters’. When social morality breaks down, as it often did when a man was beyond legal reproach in his treatment of women and children so long as he had put a ring on it, then legal recourse is the next necessary step. Unfortunately, women find ourselves in this position with TRA, as we did with male treatment of women and children in marriage, and in so many other aspects life. We actually have far more appealing things to do Simon. But we are fighting for our dignity, our safety and our privacy as women. We are fighting to exist as women in public. Men may prefer us to fight these battles quietly and behind closed doors and by pleading for special consideration and individual favours such as a private hospital room, or male free dorm room, or broom cupboard in which to change our scrubs. But it just won’t do.

Wetoldyousaurus · 15/12/2025 01:47

As so many women have said ‘we want our things back’. Not just on a case by case basis. When your house gets burgled you’re not expected to justify why you would like each individual item back. We want it all back. For all of us.

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