Girl Guides existing members

[magentafox]

Is anyone addressing the fact that boys who have already joined the Guides - or who join in the next few days before the policy comes into force - can stay?

Every lab rat can tell male keepers from female
every baby can tell men from women
as can dogs, cats, horses, cows, crows and parrots

Any adult human who says they cannot tell the gait of a male from a female
IS LYING

Considering that many GC posters immediately blacklist, abandon and refuse to buy from any brands/ chains that support trans issues, that's a bit rich of you.

No debate and nothing to do with this thread. Off you trot then and start your own thread about whether people should volunteer. But remember to tell them you won't debate any views which diverge from your own 🙄

Some people on these threads have said that they are interested in volunteering, some former leaders who left because of their issues with having to hide the fact from parents that boys were going to be sharing accommodation with girls have said they would like to back. Other PP have said they still don’t trust GG due to reluctant, truculent tone of the email from HQ,

If leaders intend to jack in GG (no doubt with a performative social media display of virtue signalling ) then it’s clear they are not actually interested in the girls. It’s ok to feel sorry for the boys but to put them ahead of hundred of thousands of girls is shameful.

This!!!

Well that's an interesting idea of equivalence.

It would be wonderful if more people did step up and volunteer but there is a serious matter of loss of trust and when a youth organisation loses the trust of parents then they need to take steps to win back that trust. GG HQ would be better focusing their attention on communicating their ongoing commitment to girls and ensuring parent understand the safeguarding processes etc. rather than focusing on hand wringing about having to comply with the law.

it’s such a depressing message to send to girls : that the feelings of boys and men matter more than the people this organisation was created to support.

I said I don't want a debate on either side of the argument, not that I wont debate any views that are different from my own? I said I understand there are strong opinions and beliefs on both sides. I don't feel that I have anything to add on either side that hasn't already been said and I don't want to argue with anyone.

My apologies, I didn't feel it was necessary to start another thread about this as there are so many already, so I asked it here, I assumed that wasn't overly problematic seeing as it is a post about Girl Guiding so it seemed relevant.

@Bingbongsingalong try this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5454531-guiding-would-you-go-back-now

Thank you! I hadn't seen that one 😊 Definitely seems like a better place for me!

I note in SM that Scouts are posting frequently and emphasising their inclusiveness so maybe people feeling unwelcome by GG will take up their offer.

The language used on SM by a local scout group has guaranteed that none of my younger kids will attend that group.

They've basically said they are "so inclusive" they won't be policing what gender people believe they are. Essentially if you say you're female you'll be treated as female.

Someone asked if that meant they'd be allowing biological males to share rooms/tents with biological females on camps if the males felt they were female and they were roundly shot down and told that sleeping arrangements for children were nothing to do with them. Which to me said yes, they were planning that.

I have noticed that the whole post was removed since, but it was very interesting to see the stance they were taking. And so confidently, almost arrogantly.

There is an easy way to boost volunteers in girl guiding.

Remove the need for a DBS or reference.

Girls and boys being together in situations which safeguarding practices would otherwise prevent is still going to happen in GG because existing members who are
boys have not
been expelled.

And they probably won't be expelled anytime soon. GG plan to consult, will then have to work out how to identify those who need to be removed and agree any new registration/ renewal requirements. That will take ages and I predict will not result in anyone being removed/ any additional checks and boys remaining (and possibly even other boys becoming new) members.

Then the burden will be on individual parents to take court cases -expensive, polarising and no guarantee of success as GG will say "we've done everything we could, including loudly and publicly saying GG is for biological girls only".

The idea that presenting birth certs and passports is simple is naive. Not all children have passports. And even if they did, and parents were happy to present, there still has to be a policy on how to manage that new process - volunteers need to be trained on how to check and record ID, match it to the right child etc. Yes, it may be difficult for parents to bring along a child who is obviously a boy, but as it might happen, there will need to be a policy on how volunteers spot that and deal with it.

Bottom line is that this appears to be a victory for common sense and women's only spaces, but GG have pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and no one seems to have noticed!

Even those commenting on this thread! So the general public definitely won't notice and will think "but the GG thing is all sorted out". This is what the gender movement is doing as it's next wave - a more subtle approach but still as toxic in its outcome.

‘Polluted’? Urgh. Boys aren’t a pollutant. They’re just not girls.

I can see why - given the press release and yet no actual changes - there's the concern that GG will do something deceitful. I am hopeful to think this would not be the case. It is fundamentally an organisation - especially at grass roots level which is honourable and decent.
The inclusion of trans girls was driven by a sense that this was the right thing to do and it seems a lot of people still think so.
But it has been clarified that as a single sex organisation they can't do this anymore. It is the USP that Guides is for girls so I don't think they will try and hoodwink boys in. For some Leaders and groups this will be hard. I don't agree with them but do have sympathy that this is a decision they really disagree with. But it seems that the buy in to this way of thinking is very passionate.
It concerns me though - especially with Guiding, which prides itself as a community that the Leaders who are pro trans inclusivity are so willing to demonise and condemn Leaders who have never agreed that transgirls should be admitted. That has been disappointing to see.

It concerns me though - especially with Guiding, which prides itself as a community that the Leaders who are pro trans inclusivity are so willing to demonise and condemn Leaders who have never agreed that transgirls should be admitted. That has been disappointing to see.

I agree. It's also a clear breach of the code of conduct, but I don't expect GG will use that to kick them out in the way they did GC members for raising valid concerns about safeguarding.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/policies/code-of-conduct/

If GG do not rapidly remove all boys from groups
they will be uninsured
as well as in breach of their Royal Charter

Many of the posters here are speaking about these kids who are about to be thrown out of an activity and group that they enjoy and that they might have belonged today for years,as if they're of no consequence at all. There's not one bit of humanity in those posts. These are children, FFS.

I'm GC, but I don't yet seem to have had the empathy bypass that many regular posters on this branch seem to have had. Thank goodness.

This is of course distressing for the children involved.
But does not override the distress to the girls expecting a girl only activity only to find out they have been misled.
And if the child themselves has been misled into thinking they have the right to identify into girls single sex spaces, then that's on the parents, not on women upholding our rights.

what would you like us to say? Plenty of people have expressed sympathy for these boys but the answer is not to ignore the fact that GG is a single sex organisation. Plenty of us have commented that GG HQ have let the whole organisation down but thre answer cannot be to encourage girls to boycott the organisation.

Young people are removed from youth organisations every day for a variety of reasons, sometimes policies change and children are no longer eligible and somethimes it is becuase of behavioural issues, It can be becuase a unit that is no longer viable closes down and the child is unable to travel to the next nearest branch or the unit actually moves from obe rented venue to another that is no longer suitable. If you haven't seen any empathy on these threads its because you havent been reading the posts fully.

Yes some people have expressed anger and that is from people who were forced out because they objected to the inclusion of boys and the policy of not being able to tell parents that their daughter might well be sharing a tent with a boy.

Tell us your magical solution....or do you just want to wring your hands and virtue signal?! Stop policing tone, respond to actual posts in a constructive way or dont get mad when we ignore the scolding!

There is only so much sympathy I am willing to give a child for having to give up an activity that they should never have been part of, and their parents should have told him he had no right to be part of, and for which there is a perfect alternative that has existed for over a century that he can do instead.

Besides which, I tend to support the majority and / or the truth and / or what is morally right and / or the underdog (girls not boys), and on every level it is the girls who deserve the sympathy.

Obviously don't know if genuine, but someone on Reddit was complaining that their 6 year old's girls "trans" friend would no longer be allowed in.

Even if your 6 year old has decided they are a girl and ignoring other factors, it's just not good parent imho to let them join a girls only group.

However trans supporting you are. Statistically they are likely to change their mind, or want to if their friends weren't involved.

Hopefully there will be some sort of coordinated move over to Scouts or other mixed groups. It's not the kids' fault.

Apologies all for the higher number than usual of typos but I was pissed off when I wrote this.