Daughter identifying as trans and wants hormones and surgery, what do I do?

[Syida]

My daughter is 16 and autistic. For some years now she's been toying with a non binary identity. I have not affirmed. I've talked to her about sex realism and how autistic people feel different and you can't change sex. I refused to use a different name or pronouns for her and explained why.

Yesterday she told me she's using a male name at college (I actually already knew this but she didn't know that I knew) and intends to go on hormones and have a double mastectomy when she's 18.

I'm distraught. I don't know what to do or if I can in fact do anything. She won't listen to me about sex reality, just says I'm unsupportive of her. I've explained that I'm not, that she wears what she wants and has her hair as she wants but that I won't support her in something that isn't true.

I feel like I've failed her. She's going to do irreversible damage to her body and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

I've told her I love her and that all I want is for her not to do anything permanent to herself but college are affirming and she's so closed to hearing anything she doesn't want to hear. I've told her we don't have to agree on things, and that it doesn't mean I don't love her. We are actually very close and she talks to me about most things except this.

I have read the books, I've been openly GC for years, I know all about the theory of this but I don't know what to do to stop my daughter harming herself.

I don't know where to turn.

Except being a parent is different. Especially when your child is a 16 year old autistic child with considerable vulnerabilities.

Parents have a responsibility to safeguard their children from harm. Whether they're suffering from an eating disorder, self harming or thinking that they're born in the wrong body.

It's not about "listening to Trans voices". That's why children are in this mess as it's "trans voices" that have been gaslighting children that their developing pubertal bodies can be wrong but a sex change will cure them.

Parenting is about helping your child learn through setting boundaries and enabling them to mature with the ability to self protect and set their own boundaries. It's bloody difficult - especially in the face of external and online pressures. The hill this parent (and most responsible parents are on) is that sex change is impossible and that the experimental drugs and surgery designed to create a pastiche of the opposite sex is both dangerous and life limiting for the young. Adults can do as they please, dress as they please, call themselves what they want. But parents safeguarding their children from harm must be the norm, not the exception

If she's autistic, then there might be some black and white thinking going on that you can work with. Life as a female is bad, therefore life as a male will be good. That type of thing.

I'd be asking questions like: At which point do you complete your transition? At which moment do you shift from being female to male? Is it the clothing? The name change? Drugs? (Which ones?) Surgeries? (Which ones?)

Is it when everyone believes she's male? Because that will never happen. Trying to get a group of people to agree on anything is an exercise in futility - there will always be a dissenting voice.

Or is she planning to be transitioning forever? Never quite one thing or the other. Not sure where she should be or how people will react. Living in a constant state of change and uncertainty. The sort of life a lot of autistics are very adverse to.

If she's still adamant it's a path she's going down, then encourage her to write out her full transition plan, from start to finish. What exactly is it going to entail? What is the cost? Money, time, physical effects, mental effects.

What will she gain once she completes the plan? Is it really worth the £££££+, 10+ years of initial treatment and surgical recovery times, then a lifetime of ongoing medication. The loss of sexual function, high risk of incontinence, osteoporosis, ongoing pain, etc. The clinical depression, brain fog, anxiety, etc.

If you look on Reddit TransgenderUK, you will find questions every day from very young people who still seem to think they will get hormones and surgery on the NHS under 18. Or think that they will be able to get them immediately on turning 18.

In reality - and this also pointed out by the Redditors - they are looking at nothing under 18, and massive waiting lists of multiple years over 18. Or self funding everything privately at great cost.

I'd suggest trying to work out where she is getting her information from, especially as there are people on line who will push DIY hormones. You could try gently trying to bring some reality into her plans 'Oh, I've heard the waiting lists are really long' 'But where would you find the money for x, we're skint right now?'

OP, you said you'd contacted James Esses some time ago & he wasn't very helpful. Things have moved on now, Thoughtful Therapists is more established and perhaps contacting him again might be more fruitful this time?

Just a thought.

Have you ever been in OP's situation? It is really really difficult to handle this, and it is incredibly unhelpful to tell her that she's getting it all wrong.

When you see your child, of whatever age, going along a dangerous path, it is very hard indeed to work out, and follow, a helpful plan of action. My son, who has alway seen himself as rational and sceptical, turned out to have been nobbled by trans activist "allies". I thought he would be open to a rational debate, but I was wrong. He has fallen for the idea that disagreement is hatred, despite having disagreed with me over various things while we still had a good relationship.

I did try to understand my son; he was completely unable to explain how he was feeling and thinking, so that got us absolutely nowhere.

I was unable to keep my mouth shut, and felt that I had to warn him about the dangers of trans ideology, and I regret that because it clearly didn't help. But I think he had already fallen for the propaganda before he mentioned the word "trans", and nothing short of total affirmation would have been enough. We are hanging on to a thread of contact at the moment, and I am just trying to wait patiently for him to remember the relationship we had, and praying that he will not damage himself too much in the meantime.

The OP is in a better position than that and has a chance of keeping a closer relationship with her daughter. She will be walking a tightrope between holding the line of reality (and being true to herself) and demonstrating her love for her daughter in ways that don't affirm her daughter's beliefs. I hope she will not blame herself if this proves impossible.

The reason I am now "gender critical" is because I tried to understand trans thinking. The books by trans authors I read, and the people I listened to and debated with, convinced me that trans ideology is a quasi-religious worldview that answers feelings of not fitting in with a false solution. There is no middle ground – either transitions (social, medical, surgical) make sense or they do not. As it is impossible to change sex, and as many people will continue to see the trans person as the sex they are, both the social and the medical/surgical "transitions" are unconvincing fakes.

When the OP says her DD is ‘closed minded’ I don’t think there is necessarily a ‘both sides’ argument to be had to say that so is she, in that I think autistic children like her DD can be inclined to noticeably fixed, black and white thinking.
share.google/images/ZdHEbDKSZ0bsUfMgl

This is a very interesting, nuanced article by a detransitioner called Helena. I first saw it on MN about three years ago.
lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name

Are her friends mostly boys? Does she have the kind of interests that men typically have -football/rugby/cars/fixing things/standing in the pub with a beer/play fighting/gaming etc
I have often wondered how transmem integrate with groups of cis male friends.

I don’t think it’s relevant! My DGD has a male identifying girl in her friendship group in year 10.

This person does not have male friends or engage in any male activities or use male spaces.

I, like PPs have read articles, accounts, testimonials and books on this issue in order to be informed. I sourced and listened to accounts from prominent trans women, who had come through horrendous abuse before identifying as women, but noticed that not one of their accounts or testimonies spoke of an identification with biological women. It was quite strange. I suppose that’s just one angle.

This. It's still 2 years away.

My young adult nephew (also autistic) went through this. Dressed as a woman, wore fake boobs, changed his name, for approximately 1-2 years. Absolutely intended on having surgery.
Then one day woke up and decided he was Brian* again. Never been any mention of it since. All very odd.

*name changed.

Another term that you might or might not want to mention is "urinary incontinence". "Vaginal atrophy" doesn't sound especially bad to a girl who knows nothing and cares less about her vagina. But being unable to stop yourself from leaking urine, which is another side effect of low oestrogen, is a problem your DD might be able to relate to.

Only you can know whether this is worth raising. You wont find much about it online and especially not about transmen. When it's mentioned at all it's usually in the context of post-menopausal women as a possible reason for HRT, so your DD might not believe you.

https://www.uhhospitals.org/health-information/health-and-wellness-library/article/adult-diseases-and-conditions-v0/estrogens-effects-on-the-female-body

I asked AI "do transmen suffer urinary incontinence" and got the following:

Another term that you might or might not want to mention is "urinary incontinence". "Vaginal atrophy" doesn't sound especially bad to a girl who knows nothing and cares less about her vagina. But being unable to stop yourself from leaking urine, which is another side effect of low oestrogen, is a problem your DD might be able to relate to.

Only you can know whether this is worth raising. You wont find much about it online and especially not about transmen. When it's mentioned at all it's usually in the context of post-menopausal women as a possible reason for HRT, so your DD might not believe you.

https://www.uhhospitals.org/health-information/health-and-wellness-library/article/adult-diseases-and-conditions-v0/estrogens-effects-on-the-female-body

I asked AI "do transmen suffer urinary incontinence" and got the following:

• Hormone Therapy: Testosterone therapy can lead to physical changes, including vaginal and urethral atrophy and changes in pelvic floor muscle function, which may cause symptoms like urinary urgency and incontinence. Some studies have found a high incidence of pelvic floor dysfunction and urinary symptoms in trans men on hormone therapy. The hormonal changes are thought to mimic some "postmenopausal" problems, even in younger individuals.

I don’t wish to appear in i.e., but does your daughter identify as “trans” or does she identify as “a man”? It might be worth having a gentle discussion on what these things mean

I'd be speaking with the principal of the college ASAP. They have to realise these kind of affirmative approaches can have potentially destructive consequences.

Give them a link to 'Transgender Trend' too.They are probabaly unaware that such an organisation exists.

In my experience trans identified males share the same kinds of interests as their male peers: gaming, techy stuff, football, graphic novels etc. They don't tend to have typically feminine interests.

Really good point @Syida

She identifies as a trans man. And as a lesbian. But in a queer way.

Her interests are drawing and animé. She is not interested in anything traditionally male and she has only one friend, who is female.

She has gothic style and enjoys wearing skirts and tights with gothic boots, which she said she would still wear.

So not much evidence of maleness there. She just doesn't like her developing body and wishes she could still be flat chested without periods.

I think it's to do with not liking puberty and some friendship issues she had where girls were mean to her and she preferred hanging out with bits, which is really common for autistic girls.

Block Reddit

get a non affirming therapist

Change her hobbies and media input

Get rid of the anime

talk to her very firmly again and again about reality and how you cannot change it.

But this is a very narrow view of “maleness” and something that GC people always argue against for trans women. That putting on a skirt and performing femininity is a very obscure and narrow way to view being a woman. Women can’t be put into a box that has a dress on it, and rightly so.

The fact that she believes she is a man but doesn’t align herself or force herself to be “masculine” in stereotypical ways is exactly what I’ve found Trans people to be saying all along. That gender is not a binary to be assimilated to. Boys don’t have to like football and have short hair. Boys can wear skirts, can enjoy wearing skirts even, and still very much just be boys. Your daughter exploring that and not forcing herself into a misogynistic stereotype of what being a man should look like is a positive thing. She is still being herself and doing what feels right for her.

shes not actually male, mate. She’s a young woman. Nothing will ever allow her to be male or experience the world as a man does. All the whimsical nonsense TRAs come out with isn’t going to make people see her as a man.

My suggestion is that, rather than explain to me, you begin an open ended conversation with your daughter about what these words are and what they mean in practice. About how they affect behaviour and expectations; what society expects and about what she wants. About the different roles that men and women have played in history.

And talk about why people have sex with each other and with themselves, about orgasms and the effects of treatment on the ability to orgasm.

Discuss how people feel about parenthood as they go through life stages.

And ask her what she’s discovered about taking hormones and the effects on appearance and voice, and about male pattern baldness.

@Syida, I don’t know if you have come across the writing of Eliza Mondegreen (pen-name of Sarah Mittermaier). She writes very eloquently about her research into online (mostly FtM) trans communities. When you say that your daughter doesn’t appear to want to be a man, just doesn’t want to be a woman, that reminded me of something that she wrote recently:

“I think trans identification can be an Extreme Overvalued Belief for some people, a delusion in some cases, and an obsession (an unwanted fixation) for others, something that’s clear to me from my own research. But trans identification can also be a lifestyle choice, a political statement, the social glue of a strange subculture, an aesthetic, a youthful rebellion, an attempt (however misguided) at self-actualization, a maladaptive coping mechanism, a quasi-religious quest, a bid for attention or a plea to be left alone. Or any combination of the above.

My own—admittedly not so catchy—take is that trans is a belief about the self. (Indeed, not even always that: some only wish they believed it. A trans identity is less a space of certainty than it is a space of doubt.) This belief can be extremely compelling to all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons, none of which have anything to do with being in any sense born in the wrong body. This belief is currently heavily promoted across the Western world and young people are encouraged to locate their deepest, ‘truest,’ most precious sense of self in their ‘gender identity.’ This belief can rarely—if ever—be considered life-enhancing. Rather, it’s a belief that latches onto and exacerbates distress by defining everything about the believer as wrong.”

https://sarahmittermaier.substack.com/p/some-thoughts-about-re-psychopathologization

But she can do all of those things without calling herself a man and cutting her breasts off, no?
I've raised her in a very gender neutral way, there were never girls things or boys things, her younger brother used to like to wear skirts.

My point was that she is subscribing to an ideology which relies on stereotypes but then rejecting those stereotypes.

I don't see why she can't just continue to wear and do what she enjoys without needing to put an (incorrect) label on it.

These are conversations we have had in the past and will continue to have.