Daughter identifying as trans and wants hormones and surgery, what do I do?

[Syida]

My daughter is 16 and autistic. For some years now she's been toying with a non binary identity. I have not affirmed. I've talked to her about sex realism and how autistic people feel different and you can't change sex. I refused to use a different name or pronouns for her and explained why.

Yesterday she told me she's using a male name at college (I actually already knew this but she didn't know that I knew) and intends to go on hormones and have a double mastectomy when she's 18.

I'm distraught. I don't know what to do or if I can in fact do anything. She won't listen to me about sex reality, just says I'm unsupportive of her. I've explained that I'm not, that she wears what she wants and has her hair as she wants but that I won't support her in something that isn't true.

I feel like I've failed her. She's going to do irreversible damage to her body and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

I've told her I love her and that all I want is for her not to do anything permanent to herself but college are affirming and she's so closed to hearing anything she doesn't want to hear. I've told her we don't have to agree on things, and that it doesn't mean I don't love her. We are actually very close and she talks to me about most things except this.

I have read the books, I've been openly GC for years, I know all about the theory of this but I don't know what to do to stop my daughter harming herself.

I don't know where to turn.

Two years is a long time at this age.
I know/knew quite a lot of teens who were NB/trans in earlier teens and have somewhat softened their stance in later teens.
May still I'd as NB, use pronouns, but if my DD's very wide circle of friends and acquaintances only one is on hormones that she is aware of. And tbh, not actually having a great time of it. It's not the magic bullet it's hyped to be.

I wonder if your daughter has ever really seen an adult male body (especially a non 'pin-up' type one) to have a sense of the reality of what she's aspiring to?

Not that I have an answer as to how that is achieved in an age appropriate way.

What a nightmare for you OP. I would have done exactly as you have done up to now. Do not use a male name. I think I'd show her stories of kids who had this surgery done now bitterly regret it. I was listening to such an interview on the radio about 5 or 6 months ago when driving home. Could you do research and find YouTube or something where the kid regrets getting it done and show her those. There will be more time than you think because when she's 18 the NHS won't immediately have her in for op. Remember the waiting lists. I'm pretty sure they have to have counselling first before any op too. She might have changed her mind by then. I had a student in Sixth Form who gave herself male name, dressed as a boy and almost shaved her head and I know her Mum was so worried. I happened to meet her as couple of years ago whilst put shopping. I didn't recognise her. She came up to me and said hello Miss. I looked as Nd couldn't place her. She laughed and told me who she was. She had a baby in a pushchair and a male partner with her. She must have seen I looked shocked because she told me once she got to uni no one took any notice of her dressed as a boy so over time she grew her hair back and reverted back to her feminine side. I think she did it for attention at college.

Absolutely this. Ask her why you see elderly ladies bent over their shopping trollies and walking frames? It's osteoporosis, she will get this at a very young age if she takes the hormones. The treatment pathway is shit, no really affective treatment. The drugs you take for it can result in necrosis of the jaw bone following dental treatment.

Then there is vaginal atrophy at a young age..

I had a mastectomy 20 years ago and I am still in pain today. The nerves become damaged, no pain killer eases it.

She needs to do some research but not in Reddit!

I think you need to go the other way - help her with research. Hopefully that research will include does she care that when she enters a sexual relationship that she will lose nipple sensitivity? Does she want children and if yes, is she ok about not being able to do breastfeed her child if she has no breasts? She’s 16 - she’s pushing boundaries so I would not present this info in a negative way - more let’s read up together on the consequences of breast surgery. Take her to a plastic surgeon who specialises in breast reconstruction after cancer - they are likely to give her the facts and not encourage her to do it as their job is to preserve healthy breast tissue where they can unless a full mastectomy is needed.

I've talked to her about sex realism and how autistic people feel different and you can't change sex

Reading this makes me think that you have approached this as a debate about gender idiology rather than actually taking the time to try and understand how your child is feeling. Wouldn you agree that this is the case?

If so perhaps an approach of asking open questions to get her to reflect on her own position rather than arguing with her which puts her in a position of feeling she has to proove her point might be a better approach.

I wonder if you could drop the rope a little.
Say to her “you’re right, I can’t stop you. It is easy for people at college to affirm you, they get to think they’re kind and with it, without facing on of the downsides of this. If you choose to do this, then you are going to have to accept full responsibility for all of the consequences- this is more permanent than getting married, or getting a tattoo. If you think you are too young to get married and then get divorced you are too young to be doing this. But if you decide to do it, I am on your side, but I am in no way going to enable it.”

@Syida have DMed you.

Once she's an adult it's up to her. But she can't turn 18 and demand a mastectomy for free, it will take more time. Dc mature and change more quickly than adults, dont meet trouble halfway.

Can you afford to find and pay a good psychiatrist? I would think that is the best practical thing you can do.

(reposting this as links got blocked)

There is plenty you can do.

I would start by figuring out what methods your daughter may suet to achieve these goals (going abroad, ordering using crypto currency, using a go fundme to pay for a mastectomy)

I strongly suggest you take a long deep look at reddit transgenderUK / with other females looking for advice on the same thing. Get familiar with all of the methods and pathways and figure out how to head each and every one of them off.

Secondly figure out where she is getting affirmation and encouragement - it's a mix of online and real life. Figure out how to intercept and prevent her being amplified via those pathways and see how to introduce new pathways into her life that give her an alternative view

Find detransition groups, find non affirming therapists, find critical debate societies. Figure out how to widen her mind.

Lastly buy this book - use all the methodologies in it to bring her around - How Minds Change - David McRaney

He also has a couple of great podcast episodes on this book. It works.

Block Reddit, X, and all of the trans positive charities on your home network (I can help). Get her OUT of the echo chamber and into the REAL WORLKD.

Therapists - Find THOUGHTFUL THERAPISTS - just google it - they have aa full list of people to trust

No I don't agree, I was just briefly summarising lots of conversations with her. I've asked lots of open questions and tried to help her explore things but she's very closed minded

@Syida- I empathise. My DD has been presenting as NB for 5 years since she was 18. Has also talked about wanting a masectomy but thankfully she is skint and we’d never pay so that’s not in the horizon. Hasn’t mentioned it for a while.

She is also gay and will say she’s a lesbian, which is so confusing. Has had two relationships with women (one NB - one not). She’s neurodivergent - which seems to be very common w trans kids/young adults. She also wants children at some point (Mother Nature kicking in here).

All this can’t after the covid lockdowns so def too much time online/navel gazing etc.

It’s def not something you’ve done so don’t blame yourself. I also recommend Bayswater as others have suggested. Good luck.

I personally now a trans man. They had the double mastectomy’s, take male hormones, therefore have facial hair and slightly male voice. They are married to a woman and have a child.

I knew this person long before they converted. They were a gay woman. They converted very quickly, through the private care system. It cost a lot of money.

The rapid rise of the trans identity was an opportunity for them and they took it.

Because I do know this person very closely, I don’t judge them. They know they are not a man. They only identify as a trans man.

They are a very gentle, kind and positive person. They are productive and independently successful.

We do talk about trans identity. I have
never told them that I am gender critical. I don’t need to. I just see them as them. And they do not want to get into the whole trans activist thing,
although obviously they are sympathetic.

But OP, I do feel for you! Your DD is so young. It is so sad, but what is the internet doing to
our young children?

It's just talk at the moment, doesn't mean any of it will happen. Be patient.

OK that's good.

She probably would also describe you as close minded.

What I wlll say is that your current approach doesn't seem to be leading to the outcome you want. If you want to influence her before it becomes too late you might need to change your approach quite drastically.

It's really hard but the main thing is to avoid being the enemy and keep as good a relationship with her as possible. Fighting about it just makes things worse when all the malign forces online are ready to tell her to go no contact with her transphobic parents. Also try and have as much control/oversight of her money as possible. I managed to persuade my dd it would be easier for me to send her money for uni if we had a joint account. Therefore I could keep an eye out for any scary spending and try get any large sums put into not easy access savings.

I don't have a particular approach, I'm finding you judgemental and unhelpful at a time when I'm reaching out for support. Do you have anything positive to suggest?

she's so closed to hearing anything she doesn't want to hear.

I suspect this is exactly how she feels about you. Whatever you feel or believe, she feels and believes differently. You haven’t affirmed or supported something that to her is very real. You aren’t listening to her just as much as she isn’t listening to you. You need to find some common ground. Maybe preaching less about indoctrination and more trying to get to the root of how she feels and why.

If she can’t feel she can trust you, or that you will even attempt to understand her, then you very well may lose her. She’s not a child very much longer. I think it’s time to step down and really connect with her.

Yeah we don't fight, we've had two conversations about it that's all really, we have a very good relationship, I'm her carer as she's disabled so I'm very closely involved with her and help her access her appointments and college. But she thinks I'm unsupportive because I'm not affirming her in this.

I've asked her lots about how she feels and why she feels it. But if I don't say "ah yes I agree you are right, you are a man" she's not happy. There's actually a lot of trust between us, she asks me to handle all her appointments, dealing with her tutor, etc, as she's disabled and only trusts me to do it.

Have you considered that (regardless of what you believe around the science of gender) many, many people are much happier having had mastectomies and/or hormones? Have you ever looked into the other side of things?

I think it’s going to be very difficult for you to get her to listen to your GC views if you won’t also listen to and understand the position of Trans views, from trans voices. Doing this will show her that you take her seriously and are actually trying to understand what about all this “fits” for her. It’s very different saying “I don’t believe, it’s not even real” and saying; “I know many people experience true joy and healing from their trans journey BUT..”

You’ve got to find some middle ground and it involves you also being able to move from your own hill

I'm trying to help by suggesting a that change of approach might lead to different outcomes.

I'm certainly not judging you, you are clearly struggling with this. I'm not into kicking people when they are down so as you have told me this is how you are feeling I wlll bow out.

Best of luck to you and your daughter. Whatever happens in the future I hope that the two of you can maintain your close loving relationship.

@Syida I promise this stuff can help, the book especially - but really the internet filtering

There is no ‘science of gender’.