NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #55

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025

If the judgement is in Sandie's favour, do you think they will find against both NHS Fife and Dr. Upton?

My understanding is that Dr. Upton is very likely to appeal. And there is speculation that this is the test case that could be taken all the way to the ECHR.

But if the judgement only rules against NHS Fife and not Dr. Upton, then presumably DU can't appeal? So in some respects, would that be a better outcome?

Naomi referred more than once during proceedings to the high likelihood that any party ruled against is likely to appeal. I don't know if she was just saying that SP will, or if she also knows NHS FAFO or DU would.

Does anyone remember what were the specific charges against each respondent ? Ai is very confused about this

I doubt NHS Fife will appeal. I'd imagine they will want to draw a line under it.

But I would think DU will definitely appeal if the tribunal finds against him. But I don't think he can appeal if they only find against NHS Fife. Happy to be corrected though.

The gist of that post objecting to the tone here recently was very similar to the resentment when FWS dared to celebrate the SC victory. Never mind what they went through or how the other side behaves, it is not kind of women to show pleasure when vindicated, apparently.

Just had to attempt calm & competent in a 10 am meeting, whilst keeping one eye out for updates.

Blocks out next Friday in diary, just in case.

Is it definitely likely to be a Friday, rather than any other day of the week?

No one can keep the lie & pretense up for too long.

Wrongthink is too hard for people who believe in the truth.

Easier for those who believe in a lie - you can sex, you can be non binary etc.

Delusion takes a lot of practice.

I did have a look through some other Employment Tribunal judgements on the website including one in my profession and where someone has gone through the same professional training and assessments as myself, and honestly, they sound insufferable to work with. The constant offence, the 'everyone else is at fault but never me', the 'they hurt my feelings'..........I mean, it's going to be fascinating what it says about the decision in this case, and those involved.

We need another rule of misogyny for this.

Blimey, I got all excited there. Someone called me just as I was frantically scrolling to the bottom of this thread and, well, it was a very short conversation.

<stands down and waits for adrenaline levels to subside>

@BezMills I do absolutely look forward to the Big Sond translation. I still giggle every time I remember your reference to a "laddie's a lassie noo ticket"

I put my hands up for wishful thinking that the judgement would be today - but it is coming soon. Just not as soon as I’d like.

That non binary case is a belter.

Why take the risk of working with people who get on like that.

Change your name and run around having a breakdown if you see a document with your former name on it. I mean you’ll have a filing cabinet of letters with your former name.

It’s not a protected characteristic- people will discriminate. ‘They’’re doing themselves no favours.

Agreed. Hence why I have a feeling that Upton will be found not liable

It’s just occurred to me that I’ve had three names during my life, and I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Should have used the trauma angle more when people used the wrong one. Not a gender issue but surely genocidal

No one can actually spell my name despite it being pretty standard.

It’s not a deadnaming / maybe a manslaughter naming / or a non-intentional deadnaming adjacent murder/ shadowname.

So much self focus it’s embarrassing they don’t know how awful they come across.

The elements are all there, submit to my coercive language, submit to me and apologise, get re-educated, wear a rainbow badge, get a lanyard, focus on me all the time.

Judge - oh do one drama Queen. No one has time for this nonsense and the big Judges cleared it up for all of us. FWS rock!

Evidence heard and seen during the tribunal points in the direction of Upton having targeted Peggie to the point of making up misconduct allegations against her and tampering with evidence presented to the tribunal. Surely the judge can't ignore that?

Is he accused of harassment and victimisation or "only" sexual harassment?

I can’t remember to be honest - sexual harassment I think but not sure if also harassment because of her protected belief.

Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see Upton under the bus but I wonder if there might just be an element of expediency applied

I’ve had 3 names too - and was regularly misgendered including on my NI card when it arrived around my 16th birthday. I am sure I must still have cPTSD from that as I hate my first name being shortened because it is so masc [it’s triggering in fact] so perhaps I should consider suing the government for the trauma and prolonged distress…

I think it will be a split decision. The ET will find against NHS Fife but not against Upton - but i would be delighted to be wrong about Upton. I hope they find in the balance of probabilities that he lied 🤥

This has reminded me of something NC said in the interview - they cause the storm and then run away and hide. Could she mean Upton has had enough? He must appeal if he wants to continue in medicine, but even success on appeal wouldn't help him much, I would think....I wouldn't be sitting here and reading too much into this if they would get on with it and publish the judgment - anything rather than deploy Henry on the stairs

If Upton loses, will the GMC automatically launch a disciplinary hearing? And would the GMC have to accept the ET's findings as part of any disciplinary action?

Utterly tragic

I doubt it. They will do their best to give it a stiff ignoring or alternatively issue sick inducing supportive statements about poor Beth.

So if you were at her house and had a period flooding incident I take it you wouldn’t mind getting undressed in front of Carol’s husband or her male next-door neighbour or her gardener? What about your male work colleagues, do you get changed with them too?

And you obviously wouldn’t mind if it was your husband watching Carol getting undressed and cleaned up, seeing as you’re good friends.

I hope Carol enjoys her retirement.

Yes, the claim against DU is sexual harassment under the Equality Act. I think this claim will be more difficult than the one against NHS Fife.

I'm not sure what relevance the dodgy behaviour regarding his 'contemporaneous' notes will have. Maybe they will be relevant in terms of how NHS Fife handled the investigation.