NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #55

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025

I have long felt that he will kick the can down the road in terms of whether Upton's presence in the female changing room was harassment. I’ll be very pleasantly surprised if he finds it was.

Please let it be soon. I have a very low number of MN posts. More of a lurker but this one is killing me.
I’m not being at all productive elsewhere (retired so I’m not doing any harm so to speak). Just so worried that common sense will not win out.

I agree. I really hope I'm wrong, but I worry that the approach by the SG and the courts seems to be that they'll delay any action or decision for as long as possible, and that this case will go the same way. Dr SadTimes was just following advice by his employer, NHS Fife acted in good faith, blah blah.

I don’t think he will

Kick it down the road or find it was harassment?

Find it was harassment, sorry

I agree ☹️

I think she’ll win against Fife but lose the Upton case. I don’t think Big Sond will make a decision that Upton’s presence in female CR, allowed by his employer, was harassment.
Then it will go to appeal.

But I’m intrigued to see what Big Sond makes of the contemporaneous phone
notes!

Are we doing it wrong? Do we have to leave a cookie and a G&T outside the courthouse the night before the judgement is expected? And a carrot for Rudolph?

Won’t it depend on the (lack of) policy and (lack of) permission when Upton started doing it? And his behaviour and reaction when SP objected? And his (lack of) evidentiary credibility?

Still nothing? Except NHS Fife has hired some more PR rather than sacking their existing lot. If they just didn't say anything they'd save money and reputation!

Checking in tae find Sondna's nae been! Got a pettit lip noo, ahm aff for a guid dort.

Could it go to appeal in those circumstances though? If the tribunal doesn't find against DU but does find against NHS Fife, then I believe only NHS Fife can appeal? Which they are unlikely to do.

This - much how I feel, the longer it goes on, the more worried…,

I've become much more pessimistic, sadly. We seem to be for a long period of bitter retrenchment as institutions fight tooth and nail, including the judiciary, to resist the SC ruling. An adverse ruling would be doubly unfortunate because I became rather fond of Kemp. Although, of course his isn't the only vote on deciding the case.

I'm not even convinced that Labour won't try to amend the EA 2010 to undo the ruling. In fact that would be the only consistent action if they continue to not allow the new EHRC guidance to come into effect.

Still it would be nice to know what the Peggie case ruling is, sooner, rather than later, even if the results are unfavorable.

I honestly thought the article on CP's early resignation and the one on NHSF hiring PR were the rumblings before the judgement was made public.

@nauticant is going to have to start another thread before we get any word at this rate!

'M'on Big Sond! 😅

SP can appeal if it the tribunal finds in favour of DU but against NHS Fife.

If nothing else, this thread is expanding my knowledge of Scottish (Fifian?) dialect :)

Sandie can appeal if the tribunal doesn't find against Upton.

Dear Big Sond,

I’m busy tomorrow and it’s going to be a long day. 2pm this afternoon would be awesome, but failing that, could you put us out of our misery on Wednesday morning?

Thanks ever so much.
Careful.

If we are finding this waiting excruciating it must be truly awful for Sandie

Sad times waiting for this judgement.
I must admit to the pessimism building having seen the quality of the decision in the Kelly v Leonardo case. It smacks of the potential for a completely ignorant, ill-considered decision to be made. Unlike the Kelly case, at least it appears that there's time being put in to consider this judgement whereas it feels like the Kelly judgement was made rapidly, and left a number of avenues for appeal. I guess Sandie's case has a higher profile, is more complex given the multiple layers of issues involved.

I would hope that she's seen as a straightforward witness, pretty much calls it as it is, and contrasts that with the other participants within the case in a positive way as far as the case goes.

That's well said, and worth remembering. This is riveting for us, and important, but for Sandie it's going to define the rest of her career.

Would Sandie find out at the same time as her legal team?

I'm going to message some people in this group such as @nauticant and @bezmills, could you please check your inbox in a minute or so. Don't want to post on here (nothing bad!)