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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #55

1000 replies

nauticant · 19/11/2025 22:05

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025

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Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 16:47

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 16:44

The Al Stewart is the first song on his album "Modern Times", I think. 1975. Not all of it is apposite, but the lines

Sometimes it seems impossible
That the game could get that rough,
But the stage is set, the exit's barred
And the make-up won't come off

Also seem to fit a little.

Have now heard it, really like it. A bit more deep than Sedaka’s jaunty tune!

Mmmnotsure · 01/12/2025 16:50

Our dog caught an amateur squirrel once. Not sure who was the more surprised - tbh it must have literally run into her. She had no idea what to do with it, so set it gently down (gundog mouth), and off it went. She probably felt quite proud of herself though.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 16:51

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 16:47

Have now heard it, really like it. A bit more deep than Sedaka’s jaunty tune!

Did you know Al Stewart's stuff before at all?

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 16:54

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 16:51

Did you know Al Stewart's stuff before at all?

The Year of the Cat is his, I think? He has a slightly mournful voice

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 17:11

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 16:54

The Year of the Cat is his, I think? He has a slightly mournful voice

Year of the Cat indeed, yes; but I prefer Past, Present and Future and Modern Times, that came out before it, with a soft spot for the one after Cat, Time Passages.

NotAtMyAge · 01/12/2025 17:30

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 01/12/2025 16:47

Here's David Miller, compassionate leader, who will have a starring role in the next SP tribunal. At last, another bloke other than Upton will be held to account.

😖 Pass me the sick bucket, someone. Is all that guff meant to be taken seriously? What has he actually achieved in his so far 30 year career?

murasaki · 01/12/2025 17:31

NotAtMyAge · 01/12/2025 17:30

😖 Pass me the sick bucket, someone. Is all that guff meant to be taken seriously? What has he actually achieved in his so far 30 year career?

Well he's attracted the eyes of millions to the inner workings of NHS Fife....

Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:37

Just seen that Naomi has resigned as chair of Sex Matters

ContentedAlpaca · 01/12/2025 17:41

Mmmnotsure · 01/12/2025 16:50

Our dog caught an amateur squirrel once. Not sure who was the more surprised - tbh it must have literally run into her. She had no idea what to do with it, so set it gently down (gundog mouth), and off it went. She probably felt quite proud of herself though.

An amateur squirrel once fell out of a tree and landed in the river in front of me while I was kayaking.
It was probably as surprised to discover it was actually a professional swimmer as I was.

SirChenjins · 01/12/2025 17:42

Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:37

Just seen that Naomi has resigned as chair of Sex Matters

Did it say why?

socialdilemmawhattodo · 01/12/2025 17:43

Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:37

Just seen that Naomi has resigned as chair of Sex Matters

I think that is an interesting outcome from the squirrel press release debacle. Perhaps that accusation rang truer than would be cautious if looking at independence.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 01/12/2025 17:44

SirChenjins · 01/12/2025 17:42

Did it say why?

It said that she couldn't do both her court work and work for SM and that she regrets this.

Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:45

SirChenjins · 01/12/2025 17:42

Did it say why?

Hope photo uploads

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #55
Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:46

It does make me think it could be a wee while before judgment, could announcing this be breaching embargo terms? If there was a judgment out I mean

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 01/12/2025 17:46

Latest in SM email

"This move has been under discussion for several months, as it became clear that it was becoming too difficult for Naomi to combine the duties of a trustee of Sex Matters with the demands of her increasingly busy practice as a barrister in the same areas in which the charity operates and campaigns.
Dr Emma Hilton will now be interim chair and will work in partnership with the board"

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 17:47

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 01/12/2025 17:44

It said that she couldn't do both her court work and work for SM and that she regrets this.

Perhaps she has thought of some other things to sue Fife about

NotAtMyAge · 01/12/2025 17:48

murasaki · 01/12/2025 17:31

Well he's attracted the eyes of millions to the inner workings of NHS Fife....

😂I guess we have to give him credit for that.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 17:48

Anyone else a bit shocked at the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on Sex Matters?

"Sex Matters is a British anti-transgender advocacy group. The organization was founded in 2021 to oppose transgender rights in the United Kingdom."

Biased much? (And also clearly American, going by the spelling.)

NotAtMyAge · 01/12/2025 17:50

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/12/2025 17:48

Anyone else a bit shocked at the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on Sex Matters?

"Sex Matters is a British anti-transgender advocacy group. The organization was founded in 2021 to oppose transgender rights in the United Kingdom."

Biased much? (And also clearly American, going by the spelling.)

Edited

Nothing shocks me nowadays about Wikipedia's anti-women stance.

Tiddler1976 · 01/12/2025 17:50

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 17:47

Perhaps she has thought of some other things to sue Fife about

Let's be honest, NHS Fife are going to be keeping her busy for the next year or two anyway! I wonder if once the judgement is out, there's potential for other names to be added to future legal cases arising from this. Is there a potential for Isla Bumba to face action for example? Jamie Doyle? Assorted others?

MarieDeGournay · 01/12/2025 17:54

Alpacajigsaw · 01/12/2025 17:45

Hope photo uploads

That's a surprise, a bit like the Abdication -
'I cannot continue to reconcile my duties....'

That's sad for SM, a big loss, but we'll still have plenty of opportunities to follow her every word in future cases.

Don't relax out there - if you've done wrong, you will still have to face her terrifying questions, only now she'll have even more time to perfect themSmile

Majorconcern · 01/12/2025 17:55

Tiddler1976 · 01/12/2025 17:50

Let's be honest, NHS Fife are going to be keeping her busy for the next year or two anyway! I wonder if once the judgement is out, there's potential for other names to be added to future legal cases arising from this. Is there a potential for Isla Bumba to face action for example? Jamie Doyle? Assorted others?

I think Isla is really covered by the first action, which deals with the policy she was behind. I don’t think she had any other involvement. Jamie Doyle cannot be sued, he doesn’t exist in corporeal form, only his essence is sensed at times in Kirkcaldy corridors

TheAutumnCrow · 01/12/2025 17:56

‘Today, Naomi Cunningham steps down from her role as chair of Sex Matters. Her legal brilliance and clarity helped us develop from an infant non-profit into an established charity. Our best wishes and gratitude go with her as she continues her vital work as a barrister defending sex-based rights.

‘This move has been under discussion for several months, as it became clear that it was becoming too difficult for Naomi to combine the duties of a trustee of Sex Matters with the demands of her increasingly busy practice as a barrister in the same areas in which the charity operates and campaigns.

‘Dr Emma Hilton will now be interim chair and will work in partnership with the board, with me and with the team to continue our work, with the same single-minded focus.
Naomi says: “I am immensely sad to resign, but will always feel proud to have played a part in an extraordinarily effective organisation, and privileged to have worked with such a talented and inspiring group of people.”

‘Sex Matters is an extremely productive organisation. The credit for that is shared by the founders, trustees and team, as well as by the supporters who have put their confidence in us. I am hugely grateful to Naomi for the work that she has done as the first chair of Sex Matters, and for her equally important role as a barrister representing claimants using the law to fight for justice.
From the first day when we met around Anya Palmer’s kitchen table in May 2021 and sketched out the idea for the organisation, to late-night arguments by WhatsApp, to sitting on the front row of the Supreme Court earlier this year, as we listened to Lord Hodge give the judgment that sex means biological sex (and always has), Naomi has been a powerful partner and a source of constructive challenge, ideas and insight.

‘Together with the rest of the Sex Matters team and board, I wish her all the best in her future endeavours and count her as a woman I am lucky to know.’ - Maya Forstater

ProfLargofesse · 01/12/2025 18:00

socialdilemmawhattodo · 01/12/2025 17:43

I think that is an interesting outcome from the squirrel press release debacle. Perhaps that accusation rang truer than would be cautious if looking at independence.

Yes I agree. From Dunfermline Press: 'Claims of victimisation were also raised against NHS Fife and chief executive Carol Potter arising from NHS Fife’s media statement on July 18, which was confirmed to be signed off by Ms Potter.'

They had tried to hide the culprit's but that failed and so since this will form part of the new discrimination case it would make NC an easy distraction for the opposite side if she was to still be chair of Sex Matters which, as we all know, was implicated in the statement as being responsible for threats of violence.

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