NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #55

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 from 28 September 2025

Sounds like the BBC’s approach to impartiality!

so long as we both whined roughly the same amount about things being unfair, they were happy that they were actually being fair.

That's the BBC attitude to bias.

Great minds! 😂

I'm increasingly concerned about the mental health focus in schools.

My DD school keeps telling them about zones of regulation, be kind, introspection etc etc. She came home with a word search the other day with 'mental health' on it and has already referred to 'feeling triggered'. She's in Y3!

It's just not healthy imo.

That's ridiculous with young children of that age. Why the need to fill their heads with that?

When I was the only woman working in an all-male environment - hang on, isn't that tautology or something, if I was the only woman, it was by definition a all-male..
I'll just get on with the story, shall I?
😃
if somebody I didn't know asked me 'Can I borrow your snips there, mate?' without looking up, and then clocked that I was a woman, I'd usually get a very flustered 'Oh I'm very sorry love!' as if calling me 'mate' was A Bad Thing.
Misgendering, years before it was invented.

However, when I lived in the East End of London, I found that women called each other 'mate' all the time.

On your other point, I agree that it's bad that children are being denied the opportunity to acquire resilience. It's not doing them any good, is it?🙄

It's good we lost some things from the past, e.g. so much deference to authority figures that they could do anything to you and you couldn't speak up; a stick or a strap in the corner as a threat; a clip around the ears; cod liver oil....😝
but society seems to swing to extremes, doesn't it?

Subjecting children to too much discipline swings to teaching children self-regulation is oppressive and cruel..

BTW I've just noticed your username and I'd like to assure you that I am 100% in agreement with anything you say, ever 😱
😁

Are we all related? <narrows eyes suspiciously>

It's more that we're mostly middle-aged, I think! But yes, my closest friends' stories about their childhoods generally feature much the same parental attitudes as mine - I guess it just shows how much we're shaped by our early experiences.

It was a bright cold day in December, and the clocks were striking that it was high time for a Judgment.

Listen and understand. Big Sond is out there. He can't be bargained with. He can't be guilted. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop writing his judgment, ever, until he is satisfied that it's right.

I agree.

Doing an intervention when one isn't necessary is somehow being seen as 'preventative' whereas drawing attention and significance to an issue can cause a much bigger problem.

It's worrying.

Then he needs to write faster.

You listening, Big Sond? <taps watch> How long can it possibly take to write "You were all arseholes to Sandie and it's #SadTimes for the lot of you", even if you ARE doing it in your bestest handwriting?

'Zones of regulation'?! What in the name of Flamin' Ada does that mean?

Come on - how long does it take to write "NHS Fife and Dr Sad Times are fannies. Sandie Peggie is the winner. See all of yous managers at the Vic? Let that be a lesson to you - you're all fucking choobs"

My DC took part in a summer school transition programme to secondary. So older than this but still too young to be navel gazing and ruminating and almost being taught that mental health problems are lurking around every corner.

They did sessions on anxiety and there were uni student age helpers wearing tshirts saying 'talk to me about my anxiety' or some such.

I had to have a conversation with dc about how the nerves they felt before a test or a performance are normal and not to be pathologised at 11.

We’ll know when it’s due out because NHS Fife comms will have accidentally leaked it, recalled it, leaked it again on repeat for an entire Friday afternoon!

There's still time today for that!

I hope a positive result comes soon, Aldi have got Prosecco on special offer.

A drive by scolding by a Friend of Carol, no less. Oo er.

(I have gypsy heritage and as a woman I do not like being called 'mush' in the same way I don't like 'guys'. It's not a slur, but I'm not keen and men from the community would not use it towards me).

I've always associated 'mush' with being vaguely threatening, as in "What you lookin' at, mush?"

A bit like being called 'Pal' in Glasgow...

When I was younger, in my very extended friendship group there was a woman nicknamed Mush. It was short for her real name IIRC.

Had no idea it was considered masculine till now.

We regularly got "Who do you think you are?"

I didn't much like it at the time, and didn't say it to my own kids when they were young. But now I sometimes wonder if their generation could have benefitted from it.

These days I even mutter it to myself from time to time. It's a useful corrective against entitlement and navel gazing.

I think it may depend on area.

Remember the list of goods in the Only Fools And Horses theme song?

"And at a push
Some Trevor Francis track suits
From a mush in Shepherds Bush"

Where "mush" seems like a neutral term for a bloke/geezer.

NHS Fife comms have had their Red Bull and are gearing up for releasing a statement...