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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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41
YouCantProveIt · 10/11/2025 09:26

Madcats · 10/11/2025 08:31

It might be my algorithms or scheduling of presenters but there seem to have been a lot of men being interviewed/interviewing about BBC bias and/or coverage of gender/womens issues. Fewer women.

I

That would be true to form - I can well believe it

OP posts:
Dragonasaurus · 10/11/2025 09:27

Listening to Nicky Campbell’s ‘do you trust the bbc’ phone in. 9.26 and no mention of the trans issue yet - lots of `trump….and other things, plus regular comments that bbc journalists aren’t biased

Chersfrozenface · 10/11/2025 09:30

Dragonasaurus · 10/11/2025 09:27

Listening to Nicky Campbell’s ‘do you trust the bbc’ phone in. 9.26 and no mention of the trans issue yet - lots of `trump….and other things, plus regular comments that bbc journalists aren’t biased

That'll be the production team gatekeeping the calls.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 09:30

PriOn1 · 10/11/2025 08:32

You’ve been around long enough to remember this, Red. It would be interesting to know the direction of travel since 2018 in staffing. Add all those staff to the parents who have transitioned their children and if it’s as bad as I fear, it seems unlikely they’ll find a way out, because they are too deeply embedded.

Goodness knows, I wish they would. I actively want to pay the licence fee partly because not watching any live TV is a pain in the arse and partly because the BBC used to be a truly great asset to the UK.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905129/BBC-chief-stunned-secret-staff-sex-survey-reveals-417-workers-transgender.html

And at the same time you are also seeing peaking. Including within the BBC ranks.

Speaking to people who work at the BBC is interesting. I'm hearing people who were right full on leave and let live go "Actually this isn't cool, I was wrong" but don't quite know how to reverse the ship.

One I know had an incident at work with someone and that broke them, after sometime of me softly saying there's an issue.

I think it surprising generally how many people in BBC Northland have independently raised the subject in the last two years without knowing my position on the subject. I'm in the same sort of social circles as the BBC - in lots of different ways and I have a pretty wide net from very Hipster young Manchester to older South Manchester commuter areas and beyond (we have a lot of friends and socialise a lot in groups that don't cross over - we weirdly fall slap bang in the middle on a lot of things and definitely don't mix in echo chambers).

There's a notable change and I do think there is pushback across the board which isn't yet finished. The bubble is still bursting, and there's still a lot riding on court cases in play.

I've said openly since 2018 that gender issues represented a wider issue with authoritarianism - I brought it up with a local councillor who respected me and told him then it was the next big political arc after Brexit and it would eventually come to a head because you can only maintain a lie of that size for a finite amount of time before it ultimately breaks. I still hold that view and I still think other countries will eventually have a reckoning on that score in time even if they are further in because it's a subject that can only produce safeguarding scandals if you fail to recognise issues. I know that a lot of MNetters were much more skeptical and afraid at points over the years and I'm one of the few who has always maintained this position that it will eventually come crashing down despite some pretty deep lows.

I don't think this is an naivety or ignorance. I think it's an understanding that certain issues can not just go on forever and do eventually reach evitable and predictable crisis even if politicians try and avoid them.

This one always has been a gigantic runaway train.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 09:32

Madcats · 10/11/2025 08:31

It might be my algorithms or scheduling of presenters but there seem to have been a lot of men being interviewed/interviewing about BBC bias and/or coverage of gender/womens issues. Fewer women.

I

We've already talked about this on MN.

Women don't want to speak out openly due to fear. There are few who will. The BBC don't want to touch certain women because they are viewed as GC rather than the 'ordinary woman on the street' too.

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 10/11/2025 09:36

Dragonasaurus · 10/11/2025 09:27

Listening to Nicky Campbell’s ‘do you trust the bbc’ phone in. 9.26 and no mention of the trans issue yet - lots of `trump….and other things, plus regular comments that bbc journalists aren’t biased

Watching it on BBC news, caller just mentioned Maxine Croxall and I swear there was a momentary flash of "arrrgghh no don't mention that" across Nicky's eyes!

Dragonasaurus · 10/11/2025 09:38

Chersfrozenface · 10/11/2025 09:30

That'll be the production team gatekeeping the calls.

Yes, just like TD never saw any complaints - we all know they exist, we sent them 😆

RobustPastry · 10/11/2025 09:40

This is not a GC win. This thread is really really overestimating the impact of (what felt like) the blanket positive reporting and tone on gender identity issues from whole of the BBC, not just in news, on these highest possible profile resignations of the DG and CEO of News. That’s not happening because of a GC reasons. It’s about much broader politics. The way the Tories and Reform are trying to claim they’re somehow the GC party is laughable.

It did feel for a long time that it was positive coverage only for the trans activists at the BBC. I complained to the BBC like many others on here.

That was a political position that the BBC should not have taken on so uncritically, but it’s also important to remember that it was the BBC who paid for and aired Deborah Cohen and Hannah Barnes’ work at Newsnight, raising on mainstream broadcast media for the first time the many concerns about the Tavistock GIDS and labelling and medicating young people as ‘trans kids’.

That was the very a win for the BBC, to provide the very first mainstream investigative reporting in the UK on this key issue. The Times similarly led the way among the newspaper pack. The BBC’s output on this was not then followed up by the rest of the broadcast media, as was the Times’ reporting led by Janice Turner not followed up by the rest of the newsprint press. Which shows the hostile climate that they broadcast it in.

Obviously yes it all should all have happened years earlier but it’s also important to register when reporting is the first and the only and that has to remain a matter praise for the BBC. The growing mainstream media coverage and the legal cases (Keira Bell onwards) are I think what has really turned this juggernaut around. It’s not the politicians have suddenly taken women’s rights seriously. Otherwise we’d see different improvements in health, education and welfare, policing, childcare rights and provision, diplomacy and international development work etc. Everything really.

The reason the whole trans activist movement has been able to capture every major institution in the UK, is because the UK is a massively sexist country. That’s going to take decades to change.

This institutional capture regarding the latest modern form of sexism and homophobia, gender identity politics, was successful for years under the short-lived Tory—Lib Dem Coaliition and then under the successive Tory govs that the UK had from 2010-2024.

So much so that under the massive Tory majority in Parliament we had, Theresa May as PM very very nearly brought in Self ID to the UK. It was a UK government proposal that this should happen.

The issue was systemic and not dependent on party affiliation simply because sexism is systemic and not dependent on party affiliation. Therefore, not a BBC specific problem. Yes, still a massive problem. But we need to be objective in judgement of it.
The wider influence of transactivism is only now slowly waning even at the NHS, and in UK schools and among UK employers. This is evidence that this sexist homophobic genderist politics goes way, way wider than who is running the BBC at any one time and speaks to something absolutely baked into our misogynistic culture.

These resignations at the BBC yesterday are more about the fact that Boris Johnson’s appointees at the BBC as NEDs have gained traction and if that’s good or bad.

It is at the same time objectively true that the BBC has had a series of editorial crisises and has responded far too slowly to them. Which doesn’t say good things about a united or healthy management culture at the BBC but again given the globally high profile nature of the BBC upper levels of board management those relationships are always going to be a war zone. And nobody would want to have groupthink there. The BBC is massive and as such it will always make mistakes, and the key is how it responds to them and actively learns from them. That is about good management at all levels.

The pendulum is swinging way too far today though. Because they haven’t even yet responded to the resignations from yesterday. There’s news coverage now- including on the BBC, about how the DG job is impossible to do or about whether we need to keep the BBC at all in this day and age.

It would be disastrous for the UK and make us more impoverished and irrelevant, and useful idiots to whatever authoritarian might find us helpful, if we didn’t have the BBC with its impartiality remit. I think most of the time, on most issues (but not women’s rights obviously) it treads carefully and appropriately. We’re at high risk of throwing out baby with bathwater which would make the authoritarians and extremists extremely happy. It’s a time for cool heads and diversity of views in broadcasting to be protected.

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 09:43

Zebedee999 · 10/11/2025 09:23

That analogy sums up pretty much most of the public sector nowadays.

I agree.

YouCantProveIt · 10/11/2025 09:45

hallouminatus · 10/11/2025 01:57

Kemi Badenoch has tweeted about the resignations:
https://nitter.net/KemiBadenoch/status/1987601695057367165#m
And the BBC has reported and quoted from her post:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vn25d5dq7o
But they missed out one significant sentence:
"And on basic matters of biology, the corporation can no longer allow its output to be shaped by a cabal of ideological activists."
It seems to be the one aspect of the Prescott report they'd really rather no-one mentioned.

Yes I think it is a factor but they’re down playing it

OP posts:
Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 09:46

BBC could admit bias as soon as this morning

The BBC could admit its institutional bias as soon as this morning, sources have told The Telegraph.

There is mounting speculation about the contents of a letter that Samir Shah, the chairman of the BBC, has sent to the Commons culture, media and sport committee.

nicepotoftea · 10/11/2025 10:00

RobustPastry · 10/11/2025 09:40

This is not a GC win. This thread is really really overestimating the impact of (what felt like) the blanket positive reporting and tone on gender identity issues from whole of the BBC, not just in news, on these highest possible profile resignations of the DG and CEO of News. That’s not happening because of a GC reasons. It’s about much broader politics. The way the Tories and Reform are trying to claim they’re somehow the GC party is laughable.

It did feel for a long time that it was positive coverage only for the trans activists at the BBC. I complained to the BBC like many others on here.

That was a political position that the BBC should not have taken on so uncritically, but it’s also important to remember that it was the BBC who paid for and aired Deborah Cohen and Hannah Barnes’ work at Newsnight, raising on mainstream broadcast media for the first time the many concerns about the Tavistock GIDS and labelling and medicating young people as ‘trans kids’.

That was the very a win for the BBC, to provide the very first mainstream investigative reporting in the UK on this key issue. The Times similarly led the way among the newspaper pack. The BBC’s output on this was not then followed up by the rest of the broadcast media, as was the Times’ reporting led by Janice Turner not followed up by the rest of the newsprint press. Which shows the hostile climate that they broadcast it in.

Obviously yes it all should all have happened years earlier but it’s also important to register when reporting is the first and the only and that has to remain a matter praise for the BBC. The growing mainstream media coverage and the legal cases (Keira Bell onwards) are I think what has really turned this juggernaut around. It’s not the politicians have suddenly taken women’s rights seriously. Otherwise we’d see different improvements in health, education and welfare, policing, childcare rights and provision, diplomacy and international development work etc. Everything really.

The reason the whole trans activist movement has been able to capture every major institution in the UK, is because the UK is a massively sexist country. That’s going to take decades to change.

This institutional capture regarding the latest modern form of sexism and homophobia, gender identity politics, was successful for years under the short-lived Tory—Lib Dem Coaliition and then under the successive Tory govs that the UK had from 2010-2024.

So much so that under the massive Tory majority in Parliament we had, Theresa May as PM very very nearly brought in Self ID to the UK. It was a UK government proposal that this should happen.

The issue was systemic and not dependent on party affiliation simply because sexism is systemic and not dependent on party affiliation. Therefore, not a BBC specific problem. Yes, still a massive problem. But we need to be objective in judgement of it.
The wider influence of transactivism is only now slowly waning even at the NHS, and in UK schools and among UK employers. This is evidence that this sexist homophobic genderist politics goes way, way wider than who is running the BBC at any one time and speaks to something absolutely baked into our misogynistic culture.

These resignations at the BBC yesterday are more about the fact that Boris Johnson’s appointees at the BBC as NEDs have gained traction and if that’s good or bad.

It is at the same time objectively true that the BBC has had a series of editorial crisises and has responded far too slowly to them. Which doesn’t say good things about a united or healthy management culture at the BBC but again given the globally high profile nature of the BBC upper levels of board management those relationships are always going to be a war zone. And nobody would want to have groupthink there. The BBC is massive and as such it will always make mistakes, and the key is how it responds to them and actively learns from them. That is about good management at all levels.

The pendulum is swinging way too far today though. Because they haven’t even yet responded to the resignations from yesterday. There’s news coverage now- including on the BBC, about how the DG job is impossible to do or about whether we need to keep the BBC at all in this day and age.

It would be disastrous for the UK and make us more impoverished and irrelevant, and useful idiots to whatever authoritarian might find us helpful, if we didn’t have the BBC with its impartiality remit. I think most of the time, on most issues (but not women’s rights obviously) it treads carefully and appropriately. We’re at high risk of throwing out baby with bathwater which would make the authoritarians and extremists extremely happy. It’s a time for cool heads and diversity of views in broadcasting to be protected.

The reason the whole trans activist movement has been able to capture every major institution in the UK, is because the UK is a massively sexist country.

100%

While LBC has Shelagh Doherty, it also has Lewis Goodall and James O'Brien who seem congenitally unable to understand equality.

The Times has a whole roster of women who have been reporting on the issue for over a decade, but are still capable of publishing the odd 'be kind' article.

38thparallel · 10/11/2025 10:01

@RedToothBrush

Thank you for excellent posts, but ‘they made an almighty pigs ear of it over Brexit and they continue to do so precisely because their issue is about internal authoritarianism’

I don’t understand this sentence. How did they make a pig’s ear over Brexit?

StellaAndCrow · 10/11/2025 10:08

I always assumed the "400 trans employees" thing was an exaggeration, but no.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905129/BBC-chief-stunned-secret-staff-sex-survey-reveals-417-workers-transgender.html

And the BBC response to this was to say that they needed to make the workplace MORE trans-friendly

Tim Davies Resigns - Can Gender Critical Movement take some credit?
RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 10:09

38thparallel · 10/11/2025 10:01

@RedToothBrush

Thank you for excellent posts, but ‘they made an almighty pigs ear of it over Brexit and they continue to do so precisely because their issue is about internal authoritarianism’

I don’t understand this sentence. How did they make a pig’s ear over Brexit?

BBC reporting on the whole subject - they admitted it after the fact that they were utterly lacking

StellaAndCrow · 10/11/2025 10:12

This was back in 2018. Does anyone know if it's changed since?

It also has the confusing (but kind of accurate):
"The issue of trans rights has divided Britain, with a split between traditionalists who believe gender is assigned at birth and progressives who believe a liberal society should make strides against any form of discrimination towards trans people."

Tim Davies Resigns - Can Gender Critical Movement take some credit?
Plastron · 10/11/2025 10:14

A deep lurker here, delurking.

Great posts from Red. And I too have been laughing hollowly this morning hearing male commentators wheeled out to explain earnestly that it’s a political coup by the BBC's enemies intent on taking the Corporation down.

They do. Not. Get. It.

The feelings and rights and lives of women are so far beneath their notice that it doesn’t even come into the thinking of the alpha male talking heads pontificating on what’s just happened. I don’t much like the term 'echo chamber' but I'll use it here because I think we’re steering dangerously close to letting things be brushed over and the BBC comforting itself with the thought that it’s all a nefarious plot by nasty meanies working to a political agenda. As others have said more eloquently than me: it isn’t. It’s people sick and tired of hearing basic reality being denied, over and over and over, and then their legitimate objections loftily waved away. Meanwhile, we're shown self-congratulatory in-house ads telling us how trustworthy the BBC is. Well - no, actually. BBC Verify? Please.

I'm actually a big supporter of the BBC at its best, and I too know people who work there, so I know that there are many within the fold who most emphatically do not support the madness. But management, and the line it's taking, has been the despair of staff for years now.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 10:15

Miriam Cates on Twix

Important to remember just how much influence the BBC has in schools. From Bitesize to Newsround, the BBC must bear its share of responsibility for enabling progressive activism in schools. As a parent it’s hard to argue against a school’s stance on gender, sex, race, climate when teachers can point to the nation’s taxpayer-funded trusted broadcaster as ‘evidence’ of accepted facts.

EasternStandard · 10/11/2025 10:27

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 10:15

Miriam Cates on Twix

Important to remember just how much influence the BBC has in schools. From Bitesize to Newsround, the BBC must bear its share of responsibility for enabling progressive activism in schools. As a parent it’s hard to argue against a school’s stance on gender, sex, race, climate when teachers can point to the nation’s taxpayer-funded trusted broadcaster as ‘evidence’ of accepted facts.

Of course. If you can reach kids you’re winning in the bias wars.

Any long standing ideology knows that.

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 10:30

Here’s an example of the bonkers top readers comments in the Guardian.

The BBC is under attack not because it's biased but because it isn't biased enough.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Panorama edit, the big picture reveals something far more sinister.
Malign forces, ideological and commercial, have a huge stake in the destruction of the BBC precisely because, for all its faults, it is still a trusted source of information in an increasingly polluted information landscape.
It is beyond irony that even as this controversy rages, news surfaces that faux-victim Trump has issued pardons to Giuliani and the other 'false slate' conspirators who worked to gift him the 2020 election.

Jesus wept.

nicepotoftea · 10/11/2025 10:41

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 10:15

Miriam Cates on Twix

Important to remember just how much influence the BBC has in schools. From Bitesize to Newsround, the BBC must bear its share of responsibility for enabling progressive activism in schools. As a parent it’s hard to argue against a school’s stance on gender, sex, race, climate when teachers can point to the nation’s taxpayer-funded trusted broadcaster as ‘evidence’ of accepted facts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z6r8qyc#z24w239

They still have this on their website. The advice to parents seems quite dated.

An A-Z of LGBTQ+ language for speaking to your child - Parents' Toolkit - BBC Bitesize

Using the right language around LGBTQ+ can often feel like a minefield - here's how you can learn from and listen to your child.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/z6r8qyc#z24w239

Abhannmor · 10/11/2025 10:44

RobustPastry · 10/11/2025 09:40

This is not a GC win. This thread is really really overestimating the impact of (what felt like) the blanket positive reporting and tone on gender identity issues from whole of the BBC, not just in news, on these highest possible profile resignations of the DG and CEO of News. That’s not happening because of a GC reasons. It’s about much broader politics. The way the Tories and Reform are trying to claim they’re somehow the GC party is laughable.

It did feel for a long time that it was positive coverage only for the trans activists at the BBC. I complained to the BBC like many others on here.

That was a political position that the BBC should not have taken on so uncritically, but it’s also important to remember that it was the BBC who paid for and aired Deborah Cohen and Hannah Barnes’ work at Newsnight, raising on mainstream broadcast media for the first time the many concerns about the Tavistock GIDS and labelling and medicating young people as ‘trans kids’.

That was the very a win for the BBC, to provide the very first mainstream investigative reporting in the UK on this key issue. The Times similarly led the way among the newspaper pack. The BBC’s output on this was not then followed up by the rest of the broadcast media, as was the Times’ reporting led by Janice Turner not followed up by the rest of the newsprint press. Which shows the hostile climate that they broadcast it in.

Obviously yes it all should all have happened years earlier but it’s also important to register when reporting is the first and the only and that has to remain a matter praise for the BBC. The growing mainstream media coverage and the legal cases (Keira Bell onwards) are I think what has really turned this juggernaut around. It’s not the politicians have suddenly taken women’s rights seriously. Otherwise we’d see different improvements in health, education and welfare, policing, childcare rights and provision, diplomacy and international development work etc. Everything really.

The reason the whole trans activist movement has been able to capture every major institution in the UK, is because the UK is a massively sexist country. That’s going to take decades to change.

This institutional capture regarding the latest modern form of sexism and homophobia, gender identity politics, was successful for years under the short-lived Tory—Lib Dem Coaliition and then under the successive Tory govs that the UK had from 2010-2024.

So much so that under the massive Tory majority in Parliament we had, Theresa May as PM very very nearly brought in Self ID to the UK. It was a UK government proposal that this should happen.

The issue was systemic and not dependent on party affiliation simply because sexism is systemic and not dependent on party affiliation. Therefore, not a BBC specific problem. Yes, still a massive problem. But we need to be objective in judgement of it.
The wider influence of transactivism is only now slowly waning even at the NHS, and in UK schools and among UK employers. This is evidence that this sexist homophobic genderist politics goes way, way wider than who is running the BBC at any one time and speaks to something absolutely baked into our misogynistic culture.

These resignations at the BBC yesterday are more about the fact that Boris Johnson’s appointees at the BBC as NEDs have gained traction and if that’s good or bad.

It is at the same time objectively true that the BBC has had a series of editorial crisises and has responded far too slowly to them. Which doesn’t say good things about a united or healthy management culture at the BBC but again given the globally high profile nature of the BBC upper levels of board management those relationships are always going to be a war zone. And nobody would want to have groupthink there. The BBC is massive and as such it will always make mistakes, and the key is how it responds to them and actively learns from them. That is about good management at all levels.

The pendulum is swinging way too far today though. Because they haven’t even yet responded to the resignations from yesterday. There’s news coverage now- including on the BBC, about how the DG job is impossible to do or about whether we need to keep the BBC at all in this day and age.

It would be disastrous for the UK and make us more impoverished and irrelevant, and useful idiots to whatever authoritarian might find us helpful, if we didn’t have the BBC with its impartiality remit. I think most of the time, on most issues (but not women’s rights obviously) it treads carefully and appropriately. We’re at high risk of throwing out baby with bathwater which would make the authoritarians and extremists extremely happy. It’s a time for cool heads and diversity of views in broadcasting to be protected.

The best post I've read on this issue. Thank you @RobustPastry .

EdithStourton · 10/11/2025 11:05

I am very much in favour of having an independent broadcaster funded by a model that doesn't depend on either advertising or catering to what is popular. I used to love the BBC: it managed to piss off people on both sides of just about every debate, which indicated, to me at least, that it was doing its job.

Now... not so much.
This is a bit off-topic, and because I don't pay the licence fee I haven't been able to watch the clip, but there was recently a discussion on electric collars for dogs on a morning news show. There was a passing mention that some people/trainers remain in favour of them. There were four guests brought in for their opinions:
A vet, who had once seen. dog that had been e-collar trained and had bitten (as if dogs never bite otherwise...) and opposed e-collars on that basis
An academic, who produced a very contested piece of research about how e-collars are no better than positive reinforcement, which has been widely critiqued by other academics for small sample size, lack of blinding, multiple confounds etc
A bod from Dogs Trust, which has been trying to get e-collars banned for decades
A dog owner, with no experience of e-collars, just feels and opinions

There are dozens, if not 100s, of articulate trainers in the UK who use e-collars to handle issues like livestock predation who could have been asked to come on. There are 100s if not 1000s of dog owners with experience of e-collar use who could have been asked to bring their happy, well-mannered dogs onto the show... but nope.

Every person who objected to this piece seems to have been sent the same form letter which says in part that 'while the BBC is required to demonstrate due impartiality [...] there is no requirement to give all views equal weight.'

Quite how you can be 'impartial' when your guest ratio is 4 to zero is a bit beyond me.
(PS Not wanting to get into a row about e-collars, only citing this as an example of how far from impartial the BBC has become.)

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