Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread - Part 2

[fromorbit]

The YP starting conference is in the ACC in Liverpool between 29-30 November so only three weeks off. With competing factions involving Islamic conservatives, every variety of Marxist/Communist, former Labour members, trade union activists, entryists from SWP and SPEW, splitters from the Scottish Greens, trans activists and actual left wing feminists [not the nice kind] it is difficult to underplay how much controversy there is likely to be. So we will need a second thread in advance.

Thus far following the internal drama of the UKs newest left party has taken a whole thread. It has been a wild ride and the party still does not have a name.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5394557-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread

The Substack Lalgargh linked to recommended another Substack, Middle East Uncovered. Turns out they've noted that Arabic social media has been pushing Fuentes. Another layer...

https://www.themiddleeastuncovered.com/p/the-strange-rise-of-nick-fuentes

On Sudan, it's fair to point out there have been protests, including calls for UK to boycott arms sales to the UAE, who have sold them on to the genuinely genocidal RSF.

Whether MENA Solidarity Network is a positive organisation is another question. But according to this, they marched for Sudan in Marble Arch on 20th December

https://menasolidaritynetwork.com/2025/12/13/20-december-london-march-for-sudan-end-the-war-defend-the-revolution-expose-the-imperialist-order/

There was another march for it through Oxford Street in April last year:

https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/hundreds-join-sudan-solidarity-protest-in-london/

More examples :

https://www.atalayar.com/en/articulo/politics/protests-in-london-against-the-use-of-chemical-weapons-in-sudan/20250518230116214868.html

https://www.arise.tv/protesters-in-london-demand-action-as-sudan-war-enters-deadlier-phase/

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/04/11/the-war-we-dont-discuss-protests-and-vigils-planned-in-solidarity-with-sudan-amid-call-for-media-attention/

https://menasolidaritynetwork.com/2025/02/09/sudanese-women-and-allies-march-in-london-to-demand-end-to-war-and-violence-against-women/

I agree the lack of protests from the left in support of Iranian women is very telling.

I think you're oversimplifying the other 2 examples though. As I noted above, there have been left wing protests for Sudan through Marble Arch, Downing Street, etc

Moreover the Israel-Palestine conflict, particularly since October 2023, has received wall-to-wall global media attention, with vivid imagery, high-profile statements from world leaders, and direct Western involvement (e.g., arms sales, diplomacy). This makes it easier for people—left-wing or otherwise—to feel informed, form strong opinions, and mobilize (whether they ARE actually informed is of course another matter)
In contrast, the Sudanese civil war (since April 2023) and violence against Christians in Nigeria (ongoing for over a decade via groups like Boko Haram, ISWAP, and Fulani militants) get far less consistent mainstream coverage.
In the cases of Israel and the UAE (key backer of Sudan's RSF in the ongoing civil war), the UK has substantial influence through longstanding alliances, major arms sales, and deep economic/diplomatic ties:

The UK is a significant supplier of military equipment to Israel (components for F-35 jets, targeting systems, etc.), though sales are relatively small compared to the US/Germany. This gives us some leverage in bilateral discussions.
With the UAE, UK arms exports (including components for armored vehicles and other gear) are ongoing and substantial in the Gulf context. Reports from 2024–2025 (including UN panels and media) have alleged UAE-supplied arms (some with UK-origin parts) reaching the RSF, accused of atrocities in Darfur/El Fasher.

Contrast that with Nigeria and Boko Haram (or ISWAP splinter):

The UK has no direct arms sales leverage over Boko Haram itself — it's a non-state terrorist group, not a government buyer. The UK can't "cut off" supplies because it never provided them.

These are also factors in why there's been less visible protests for them, especially for Nigerian Christians.

Right wing groups don't seem to have protested or marched visibly in support of Iranian women, Nigerian Christians or Sudanese, either, unless I can't find the info on this.

I think it's fair to note also that mainstream newspapers & the BBC has covered protests on Gaza a lot, whereas small left wing or Middle East & Africa focused outlets seem to be the main ones reporting Sudan protests.

Forgive me but I get the definite impression that the average Palestine protester is not a cerebral type who understands or cares much about what levers of influence the British government may or may not have.

I agree , as I said, the wall-to-wall media coverage of the Gaza war 'makes it easier for people to feel informed, form strong opinions, and mobilize (whether they ARE actually informed is of course another matter)'.

But I do think the potential pressure the UK can bring to bear is part of the reason for the disparity. The Gaza protests, terrible though they usually are, do often have definable aims such as UK to not sell arms to Israel, sanctions, and more recently, the declassification of Palestine Action as a terrorist group and release of the hunger strikers.
That doesn't mean those aims are good ones, of course...

The Sudan protests likewise call for UK to not sell arms to UAE.

It's less clear what the UK could do about Boko Haram since they're a non-state actor so sanctions wouldn't work.

I don’t think so. I think the protests are for similar reason (good or bad) as protests in Spain, Italy, France, South Africa etc. which can claim none of those justifications.

ThreeDeafMice, Those protests had EU and government-focused goals of their own though: not that they were good ones.
France had calls for sanctions on Israel, calls to suspend trade or association agreements, demands for ceasefire enforcement, calls for increased humanitarian support.
Spain & Italy had calls to recognise the state of Palestine & end arms sales or military cooperation or take diplomatic stances different from the status quo.
South Africa had calls for ceasefire in Gaza , severing diplomatic ties with Israel, closing embassies, boycotts and sanctions & ending exports that might be seen as supporting Israel’s economy.

Anti-Israel demonstrations had more traction with the mob than demonstrations over Sudan or other causes. My point is that that difference has to do with things other than each national government's perceived ability to influence events in the middle east.

The idea that a would-be Sudan protester would have gone out on the streets with placards but instead stayed home mainly or even somewhat because their government has no levers of power in the region doesn't ring true to me.

I think you are retconning a reason for the different level of public involvement between anti-Israel demonstrations and demonstrations for and against other causes.

I think the majority of the people on the marches do believe they are there to peacefully protest British involvement in Israel, but they have tolerated a large minority of people who are professional (some violent, many anti semitic) protesters.

I think the majority of the people on the marches do believe they are there to peacefully protest British involvement in Israel,

I'm sure that's what they believe. The problem is that they are far less motivated peacefully to protest British involvement in anything else at all. It, among all international topics, seems to be the one that gets people out on the streets.

As it does for Spanish people, French people, South African people and people of other nations.

Yes, I agree and I think much of it has to be that anti Israel=anti Western Imperialism, when they have no problem with Chinese/ Russian current Imperialism in the ME and Africa. Its probably because the Israel/Palestine confluct is by far the most publicised and seen on TV more. Also, why are economic sanctions on Israel an aim but then people on the Hard Left blame the collapse of the Iranian economy on US sanctions (rather than the regime spending their cut price oil money on proxy wars with Israel) when they have been murdering and oppressing their own people for nearly 50 years? There seems, from the outside anyway, a change in the rhetoric from ' we are anti Hamas but pro Palestine' to Hamas, the Houthis etc being ' freedom fighters' against Western Imperialism, which does explain their apathy towards Iranians fighting against the Iranian regime. Its also ironic that they are against Iranians fighting against the regime, and talking about imposing a Secular Socialist democracy in Palestine that they are engaging in a bit of Western Imperialism themselves.

Of course The western Left has a history of association with pan- Arab Baathist parties...who were secular and socialist in orientation.

Absolutely. It’s religious. Non believers are to be cast out.

Gerry Healy's group was certainly well in with Saddam Hussein. They were never big numerically, but they did recruit a big chunk of the British acting profession. Maybe that's part of why I'm sceptical about actors sounding off about politics.

My first real awareness of the left selling its soul to Islamism was when Ken Livingstone in mid-2000s as London Mayor invited a cleric over who, shall I say, didn't really share his socially liberal views.
It was maybe my first culture war disconnect. Even though I was a conservative voter at that time, I recalled my teenage/early 20s lefty roots, yet I don't believe I ever wanted Islamism in any way.
And yet, here was Ken Livingstone, possibly the UKs most prominent lefty politician in a position of serious power and visibility and influence, warmly inviting to the UK a gay- and woman-hating anti-Semite.
My total isolation from the left happened from that point.

Yes, I agree with this

I think I agree with RainbowBagels upthread : people lile this think Islamists will somehow fall in line with middle class secular left wingers and become socially liberal when the government is socialist or similar, and don't realise how catastrophically- and for that matter, patronisingly- they're misunderstanding the situation.

Vanessa Redgrave saying no matter how many women alleged sexual abuse by Gerry Healy, they were all liars, was certainly...quite a statement....

Agree strongly with this, especially the sanction point. I suppose a lot of these protestors probably want Israel's economy to collapse...

On the Russian & Chinese imperialism in Africa & Middle East : I'm not so sure if you can say most Gaza protestors necessarily support these. The huge protests over Gaza were triggered by the war. Russian and Chinese influence in Africa or the Middle East isn’t an ongoing war or land dispute in the same way, and receives far less media attention.
Protest intensity tends to track war and immediacy, not only imperial influence.

During the height of the Syrian civil war there was a lot of talk about how Putin was enabling Assad, and I suspect there probably is overlap between Gaza protestors and opponents of Assad & Putin's actions in Syria.

I agree partially with this.

This though : 'The idea that a would-be Sudan protester would have gone out on the streets with placards but instead stayed home mainly or even somewhat because their government has no levers of power in the region doesn't ring true to me.'

• protests about Sudan happened here precisely because the UK does have levers of power over the UAE, at least in terms of arms supplying. I think the disparity was more to do with disparity in media coverage. The BBC & print news outlets have laser focused on Gaza in a way that they have not on Sudan, for various reasons.

There's also an ill-advised left-wing tradition of support for the PLO which goes back a long way. Thus people have a lot more left wing material telling them about Israel's supposed colonialism etc than they have telling them about the warring factions in Sudan.

I suppose there's an argument about second hand involvement in foreign wars, but that's tenuous and often wildly inconsistent.

Whatever assistance the UK gives to Israel is very small change in the scheme of things, and as we've seen, the only way to get any deal in that conflict is for Trump to bang heads together.

In Sudan, the RSF is being supported by the UAE, and the Sudanese junta that's only marginally less awful than the RSF is being supported by Egypt (and, randomly enough, Ukraine, which you'd think would have other priorities). If Sudanese exiles are holding vigils or whatever I'm all up for joining them, but I'm not sure what the UK can do at third hand.

I don't adhere to Corbyn/Galloway style Third Worldism, but I get annoyed a bit when Ben Wallace pops up saying "we must not stand idly by while xyz happens" and I think "Ben you nitwit, you were Defence Secretary, you know how limited the UK's military capabilities are."

I'm afraid the left's laser focus on Israel/Palestine has little to do with objective UK involvement and a lot to do with decades of political education telling left wing activists that Israel is the Great Satan. They don't know about Sudan and don't care to know.

The huge protests over Gaza were triggered by the war. Russian and Chinese influence in Africa or the Middle East isn’t an ongoing war or land dispute in the same way, and receives far less media attention.
Yes I've rambled into the general Hard Leftist anti Imperialism mindset,rather than just general marchers. The Left activists, SWP etc ignore current Imperialism that is going on, with China and Russia basically doing what the British did in India, and even use the same excuses ' we're building railways etc' which is ignored which means also being ignored is that they are interfering in foreign countries, taking their oil, resources etc currently but only America is a terrible imperialist.

Ah I see, thank you. That makes sense.

Agree especially with the last paragraph.

I think it's unfair to say no section of the left knows or cares about Sudan. The reports on the protests & vigils were overwhelmingly reported only by small left wing outlets like The Canary, as well as Middle East & Africa-focused outlets. But I agree the average Gaza marcher presumably disapproves of they know but isn't marching.

'In Sudan, the RSF is being supported by the UAE, and the Sudanese junta that's only marginally less awful than the RSF is being supported by Egypt (and, randomly enough, Ukraine, which you'd think would have other priorities). If Sudanese exiles are holding vigils or whatever I'm all up for joining them, but I'm not sure what the UK can do at third hand.' - on this point, the marches have generally called for the UK to stop selling arms to the UAE, among other things.

According to this blog reporting on the latest March last month, the demands were :

Sanctions on the UAE for sponsoring and enabling genocide., • Designation of the RSF as a terrorist organisation under UK and international law., • Investigation into British-made weapons used by the UAE-backed RSF in Sudan., • Humanitarian access for civilians trapped in Al-Fashir and across Darfur., • Justice and accountability through the International Criminal Court (ICC).

https://darfurunionuk.wordpress.com/2025/11/08/10164-02/

I agree that the UK's influence is proportionally quite small. This is also probably why the Gaza focus shifted more to protesting imprisonment of Palestine Action rather than protesting the conflict itself, especially as it (hopefully) seems to be quietening.

Also explains lack of protests for Ukraine now. The UK has done what we could but sadly,,again, it's a case of ultimately relying on the US to get a deal, if that's even possible..