"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

I think SC feels the Trust's handling of the matter is the only ground he can really fight on now and he's being snippy today.

Quite. It shows what kind of people, ‘processes’ and employer the Claimants were dealing with.

”But you can’t have been that frightened, you didn’t complain!”

Ah, but you made it so I was more frightened of complaining than of the thing I was complaining about.

NC said it before: if they dismiss you for something they shouldn’t dismiss you for, you will have a strong case at an ET. BUT, for most people, most of the time, on balance, keeping shtum and keeping their job is better - safer - than the rock solid case at ET.

From TT
SW We asked for a lead complainant
NF So just deal w a nominated spokesperson
SW Yes is our standard practice but we didnt have one in this sitn

But the nurses had individual complaints re harassment, so how can you have a lead complainant? It seems as if they always discounted the harassment issue.

His comment to NF was petulant, and like the sort of thing you’d say to a sibling, in an argument.

‘Where was this in your submissions?’

He only piped up because the Judge did.

I am not sure that it is that men think in a different way but that a man, especially a big young man, wouldnt have felt at all vulnerable in a FCR.

My feeling, reading TT yesterday, was that when the question of risk came up, he only considered risk to himself. In his view there was no other risk of importance or even in existence. He didnt feel at risk so there was no risk.

It is the complete lack of empathy which is quite frightening in a HCP.

I do hope he's not being paid by the word because he hasn't had a lot to say for himself, has he? Is this normal in English and Welsh tribunals? The Scottish ones seem more fought but is that just the system?

But many men would understand there's a risk of sexual harassment or similar issues being raised.

Both my dad and my husband have expressed this awareness at times. My dad saw a crying lost child in the supermarket and was concerned how an approach may look, and my husband always takes one of our children with him if giving lifts to their friends. They are both respectful, kind and non threatening or sexually deviant men and yet understood/understand the risks.

To me this strengthens any claim against RH.

Which reminds me.

Was he told that KD didn’t want him involved in her operation?
Was he told, and didn’t instantly withdraw from it entirely; like any other medic would, under those circumstances?

Or was he still pig headed and arrogant enough to refuse?

So they are going to face disciplinary when this case has resolved.

I really feel for the nurses, it must be exhausting.

Yep, most blokes would expect to have their collars felt for what Henderson did in that female changing room, even ‘just’ the bits he’s admitted to.

Seems a long break

My 'room' went back in the room, with names at the left etc but black screen, then after a moment we were out again.

Same here.

Rosie Cotton, the barmaid at the Green Dragon, Bywater, Hobbiton, the Shire.

I had a similar experience some years back. Legal advice was that a group of us had good case but the others quickly backed out and I could not afford to go it alone to the ET.

Catching up. Lovely to see Myrtle back in action doing the TT-ing, but don't overdo it, stop before you get too tired

It is a bit worrying that the judge doesn't seem to be open to the issue of delay in dealing with the nurses' complaints.
They said they didn't want a man in their CR, and every day that the trust delayed dealing with it was one more day of them having a man in their CR, and one more day of being shown that they were not valued or respected as much as the man in their CR.

And the fear of losing their job if they continued to complain doesn't seem to carry much weight for the Judge either.

Yes I was kicked back out and am now WFTCHTJ

My husband plays online games, and was ‘chatting’ with another player.
They were typing back and forth and he suggested they go on comms, and use their headsets.

To my husband’s surprise, the other player was a 15 year old boy.
Straight away, my husband asked to speak to one of his parents, and the boy’s Dad came over to speak to him.

My husband said: your son is a lovely kid. He’s mature and intelligent. He’s a proper credit to you.
However, it doesn’t feel right for a 50 year old man to be speaking to a teenage boy like this.
He said: i mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your son, cos he’s a good kid, but it just feels a bit iffy.

I did a 'thought experiment' I read somewhere with a young man I knew who was oblivious to the way women have to read the risk in some situations.

I asked him to imagine a third sex that was bigger, stronger, taller, faster and more aggressive than men. And of whom the vast majority were sexually interested in men.

And asked him to imagine how he would feel living his life where half the people in his world could, if they wanted to, physically overpower him with ease. Probably with one hand. And force him to have sex.

He didn't really want to think about it but I hope I planted a seed.

Thanks for your concern ♥️

I have a flu jab at 1352 (I know! Very precise timing). So I'll be leaving during lunch and hopefully back by 2.30ish.

It will then just be 90 minutes till the court finishes.

If I'm too tired, I'll let you know.

Am I missing something (fully aware I may be) but I’m sure before they didn’t want the nurses talking to each other about it, but now they’re asking for a lead complainant?

I’ve left and rejoined twice. I’m in the room but I have sound but no vision.

Just me?

During the Fife trib, there was a suggestion that a long break meant that the judge was banging his head against some soft furnishings before coming out to deal with it all again😄
I don't think that's the case here, so I wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes?

'In' again, black screen. Sound on.

I do miss the Fifer and Big Sond!