"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

Ha. As expected, glasses to soften the face. The Veronica Ivy school of womaning.

Oh I see (from the Darlington and Stockton Times article posted above) - so, when he says he never wandered around in his boxers, he means, never in his boxers alone with a bare chest, because that would make him uncomfortable - he'd always want also to be wearing his false breasts, or something, as well? Can't imagine that would make any of the women feel more comfortable with him!

If you scroll down this article, there's a full length image of Rose.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/25595653.transgender-nurse-centre-darlington-changing-room-tribunal/

Northern Echo mentions the boxers:
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/25595653.transgender-nurse-centre-darlington-changing-room-tribunal/

"Rose has denied allegations of staring at colleagues, asking if they were getting changed yet and walking around the changing room in boxer shorts."

"The statement described how Rose suffers with “both top and bottom dysphoria (meaning) that I do not like how either part of my body appears”.

It read: “I have never walked around the changing room wearing only boxer shorts. This would make me very uncomfortable.”

(Edited to add quotes)

And has a lovely full length image of Rose.

Rose looks a bit like Russel T Davies

So he had his top covered up, presumably because he has fake breasts?

Google-imaging RTD, he looks more like the fox-killer to me! 😀

Thanks again for posting the TT! I was listening/watching along, but I've gone back and read through the commentary here as well to refresh.

Having watched it, I would describe RH as tetchy. Not in the same smugness league as DU, although that is quite a high bar to reach. Unlike DU, it seems like in this case RH used the changing room without any sort of prompting or 'permission' from management. I wish NF had drilled down on that a bit more, but I don't think it's really relevant to the actions of the Trust. NF's job here was to damage the credibility of RH's witness statement, and demonstrate that multiple women had multiple different incidents (concerns?) and allow a right of reply. It will be for the panel to judge the credibility and how much weight to give to these.

Also,I wasn’t very clear on the geography of the floor. Does the famous plan undermine his account of what he was doing in the Unit? Again NF chose not to ram home whatever point he was making about shortest routes.

Scrubs are unisex. They are washed on site/professionally so nobody has their own. Sizes are colour coded by different colours on the neck/waist, so you know what size you're looking for. Most nurses I worked with would give the scrubs a quick flick as they took them out of the cubby to unfold them and see that they were ok, had a waist string, weren't ripped/hokey, etc. It takes about three seconds. Ink stained wouldn't have worried me at all. Everyone knows they're clean because the hospital cleans them.

I think NF was exploring a couple of issues at the same time. One was that RH wasnt taking the shortest routes that would fit with his statement about where he went and why at times contested by DSU nurses statements. The other was that RH's reasons for visiting DSU didnt always make sense. One time he went to ask for a Form 2 (of 4) - but that particular form is for paediatrics which DSU doesn't hold as they dont treat paeds patients.

Yes, they mention boxers but Rose has been accused of wearing boxers with holes in and he was asked about this today by NF: "You own boxer shorts with holes in?" RH "I expect some of them are slightly damaged yes"

NF: "She says para 14 she often saw you in holey boxer shorts and top..."

NF: "para7p71 she says, she describes what she saw. What she says you were wearing corresponds with our description of your underwear?"
RH: "no - one pair maybe - mainly my underwear is not riddled with holes".

Thread by @tribunaltweets on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

But surely if they are making it available to the press, the same copy can be made publicly available?

There are different rules for the press. They can have a PDF etc.

Imagine having to discuss your holey underpants in court and not being visibly mortified!

It should be even more embarrassing that you have Male Substantial Underwear Privilege and you still manage to create holes in your pants, and you wear them anyway, and you have to admit it because everyone knows, and then you parade around in them anyway.

If that's not a bloke response I don't know what is!

That’s what was going through my head!

Off topic, but I love the Mumford and sons cover of this song

Yet they managed to acquire one- magic powers, obvs

penis keeps getting in the way of Ladyyness, so inconvenient. Continuing to get erections, efforts to create baby etc etc are just distractions here, let's concentrate on the Difficult Womyn who won't stop harassing him. I mean her. I don't know what I mean please don't arrest me for misgendering I have a job and a family to attend to and Gender Prison will be a hassle.

Can I ask you @Lougle as you obviously know about these things, the question I asked up thread about scrubs.

If after trying them on they are found wanting (real or imaginary ink stain or tear, or genuinely the wrong size), should they be put on the pile of dirty scrubs? Or is it ok to return them to the pile of clean scrubs for someone else an unsuspecting woman to wear?

Thanks I had missed that! I see now it was a dress not a blouse, and I was wrong in my description of the short neck chain though I think the chain might have been fastened higher in court - and an extra button was done up.

That dress is actually quite softening of the figure, but men and women carry body fat so differently, his male belly would almost certainly be very obvious in scrubs. And with his hair up he would lose all the softening benefits of the blow dry.

Good grief, look at the hench lad.

This is a very serious point. Workplaces enabling this are leaving their staff wide open to allegations. Not only did the Trust put all their female staff at risk, but even is Rose was the gentlest, kindest, most modest soul who would never harass anyone they left him wide open to allegations.

There will be serious consequences going forward here. The nurses have already been reported to NMC and the outcome of this tribunal may have a bearing on what happens next.
Rose is also a registered health professional. If the tribunal believes the nurses over Rose re the harassment in CR he will be reported to his regulatory body.

I wonder how the Trust could possibly have avoided all this???

The images are very informative.