"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 5

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct, TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager

Now that you set it out, I remember the change. I especially remember leftwing commentators pointing out the nonsense of the internal market.

How ironic that the champion of small government and efficiency should have been the instigator of so much unnecessary additional bureaucracy and built-in inefficiency.

Could the reason that the judge wouldn’t allow any further questioning once TW had said about the lies be because he has already decided that this witness is incredible and so he doesn’t want slanderous comments about KD going into the transcript that could then be repeated by the press?

It's because of this:

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1984276930762604794

J very reluctantly allowed a question relating to a withdrawn issue because it was about a matter of credibility but once that had been explored he wanted the line of questioning closed.

If TW had said "HR", she would have been spot on.

Just caught up - thank you to the scribes, posters, quick typers-sorry don't know how to refer to you all, keeping things up to date

Another tribunal- showing events/circumstances that shouldn't have got this far; what are these 'managers' actually managing? Perhaps if they'd spent more time on managing people then there'd be no need to put people through this ordeal. Let alone the cost.

But yet again, it's all about the T. Who cares about the women eh? And it makes me wonder what the 'managers' do all day? It wasn't aways like this- in the days of Personnel Depts- were staffed by people who knew the workforce.
Honestly, certain folk need sorting; it's a farce it really is.
As ex-Nhs; I'm ashamed. And a little bit disgusted

Has anybody got a link to TT's threadreader for the second session this morning?

I can't find it.

@Manxexile there's an archive of it here
archive.ph/o8Rt6

Just been catching up...a few things jumped out:

• Other transgender staff changed more privately. Counters the TRA "we have been using them for decades" with no objections. I have had that sense for a while.

- More on top of legal situation than some other tribunals it really really sounds like they didn't want to ask Rose to use another changing room at risk of being sued at Employment Tribunal.

And unsurprisingly there's a lot of NHS management who could just be sacked and the whole organisation would run better.

Not sure if you need a subscription to see the Substack
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/eight-nurses-v-county-durham-and

There are daily updates on the CLC website. This is for today, which appears to have been written before TW took the stand:

Nurses were called ‘cisgender’ and Trust knew policy was outdated - Christian Concern

Thanks.

I think you do, but found it from your earlier post

Deleting -- others more than adequately covered the 'lesbian' trope. No need to add my take.

You don't need a subscription to access the Tribunal Tweets Substack.

Here is the link to the main page:

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com

But subscribing helps towards them covering their costs.

I wonder where all these very upset and vocal supporters of Rose being in their changing room with them are. Would they get in trouble if they spoke out? It wouldn't be criticism of their employer, quite the opposite, so would it be allowed?

It's quite hard to be called as a witness in a tribunal if you don't exist.

Exactly this. Where are the multitude of lesbians who are backing Rose ?

Hiding in a storage cupboard with Darlington's SSS policy experts.

Not sure if already discussed but here is a previous operating theatre ET that concluded late 2022 -ahead of the current complaint that started the next year. A number of the same cast members appear and the (same) ET judge is fairly sympathetic (if unflattering) to Darlington NHS side.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63c7b513e90e074eebd7abbf/Carole_Bailey___Maxine_Campbell_v_County_Durham_And_Darlington_NHS_Foundation_Trust_2500549-21___others_Reserved.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwidleXM48-QAxUmU0EAHQTdIE0QFnoECFMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw21gyp0CleTAfKMeEzqnTut

I'm not getting anything when I click on your link, @NebulousSupportPostcard. Just blank with some teeny words top left, too small to read.

Technically she might be right (in a wrong sort of way.) PALS is described as 'a free, confidential service that provides patients, their families, and carers with information, advice, and support, and helps to resolve concerns about NHS services'

So there you are. It's not a complaint, it's a concern, and we all know what happens to concerns. I'm imagining a special bin for them because my experience of them is that there's no questioning of answers. They forward your 'concern' to the relevant department, and then forward their answer back to you. Then, when you get back to them, they 'understand your concerns' and forward them back. Then, as far as I can tell, nothing happens, but it was fun talking to them about protected characteristics and why they ask about one of them but not the others...

She still clearly knew about it and wasn't happy that someone dared to question HER.

Is it a management or talent sacking or a mere person who looks after sick people and cares about people sacking? I have a feeling that they're two different figures. So maybe we could call them MTS and US with the U standing for 'useful?"

Try this link for the other Darlington theatre tribunal

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/c-bailey-and-m-campbell-v-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-foundation-trust-2500549-slash-2021-and-others