A Question of Some Considerable Delicacy

[theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw]

Ever since FWS, we've been told by TRAs that the country is awash with transwomen who are heartbroken and terrified because they've been told to stop using women's facilities, and this has outed them to their colleagues.

I'm finding this hard to believe, because I have virtually never mistaken a transwoman for a woman. There have been previous threads about this, from which I gather that the scientific consensus is that humans are very good at sexing other humans from an early age.

Maybe I am just wrong, though, and have been fooled many times. And maybe some people aren't very perceptive. According to a recent thread, Morgane Oger thinks he could only accurately sex about 70% of a mixed crowd; a PP on the same thread thinks Maya Forstater looks like a man.

So I would like to hear other people's experiences of this (please try not to insult or offend!). Were you ever surprised, when a woman turned out to be a man?

This piece about Kelly v Leonardo reveals the mindset:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/10/terf-employee-admits-to-secret-cis-only-bathroom-at-work-i-wont-sacrifice-my-privacy-my-dignity/

Kelly also admitted to speculating over her colleagues’ gender identities and tracking their bathroom usage, telling the tribunal that over a period of six to nine months, she identified three people she believed to be trans who were using the women’s restrooms.

This seems to misrepresent what was happening. MK was not speculating: she knew that they were men, surely?

I'm interested primarily in what this means for the law, in particular in relation to Article 8 ECHR (right to private life). TRAs interpret this as an unlimited right to conceal one's sex in every situation. But how can even a limited such right exist, if there is no way in reality that such concealment can reliably be achieved, from everyone, all of the time?

Are they actually demanding the right to force everyone to pretend to be fooled? That's not a privacy right.

Me, a couple of police women. I don't know who else.

I thought it was a human thing that we are all supposed to recognise sex, is it just women?

Women are better at it.

There is an argument that it evolved as a necessary survival mechanism for females.

Ok so I'm not good at it, neither were the two policewomen. Or maybe he looked like a woman. I only realised he was someone I'd known locally, his little brother was at school with one of mine, when I saw his name on the paperwork.

Ok.

Generally speaking women are pretty accurate at correctly sexing men, even at a distance, and seem to be far better at it than men.

"When he was arrested the man he was with refused to believe he was a man. A police officer who was new to vice squad was amazed when he was told he was male, he thought he was being set up as a joke."

Hang on, you said the John the male prostitute was with and a male police officer at first. Now you're saying two policewomen?

That’s the population as a whole where it’s about 0.5% but in the younger age bands it’s much higher - around 1 in 73. Thats not rare. And in cities esp with high student populations there are loads of TIMs around. I never used to look but I do since the Sandie Peggie case and many stand out in a crowd. I don’t “meet” any typically - just see in passing because I’m in very busy areas with thousands of people and a skew towards younger age groups

First pic: trans woman on right (Jayne McFadyen)
Second pic: cis woman on right (Marion Calder)

The indistinguishable similarities are commonplace.

I rest my case.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-06/conversion-therapy-trans-paper-pushed-decades-later/105850280

https://www.thetimes.com/article/53d797c2-40dd-427c-8c0b-a0f42821a0cf?shareToken=52e90b780088d8a50c5e7256141b40de

@TheGreyDeer you know that you are a man, so why not push other men to include you as a feminine man in male spaces?
Fight for equality for all males to be appreciated for who they are?
I respect all people who live their authentic lives but not liars.

Seems an apt time to break out the unicorn!

Hahaha. Did you scroll down to your last pictures of 'Jayne' McFadyen?

This J McFadyen

3 2 1 Incoming denial.
Doesn't change the fact the facial features are similar. Not all trans women are tall.

That's a very large, tall and obvious man right there! 😂

Marion Calder is very obviously a woman, and she looks quite short in pictures.

They both wear glasses and have mid length hair. There the similarities end.

Going to take the unicorn's advice now.

It is almost like ‘passing’ is a fleeting chance and a fleeting moment. Whereas being female is not based on a moment in time.

The first picture is of two transwomen, and the one on the left is the more convincing.

The second link is to the wrong article, but I know what Marion Calder looks like, and I can't believe you think she looks like a man! What is up with you?

Anyway, I've already conceded that passing trans might be a thing: but Article 8 still clearly irrelevant to oh so many.

You really do lack the ability to correctly identify a person’s sex category. And the lack to discern facial differences.

You need to stop believing that your experience is the universal experience.

Height is irrelevant because trans women aren't all tall. Facially, they both have the same older woman 'look'.

Deny deny denial….

No. Their faces are not similar. Maybe you are distracted by grey hair. Do you think you could be ageist as well as misogynist?

I see you denying your lack of facial recognition. And sure, crack on with that. Others will come and check and I doubt you will get anyone agreeing with you who has the ability to recognise facial structures.

A there we have the ageism.

Enough said.

Ageism is a standard feature of TRA " Urghhh you're all old ugly and meeeaaannn and are going to be dead soon and all the cool young people will be in chaaarge you
old hags" is one of their standard responses (ageist insults may of course vary)

“The same older woman look”

lol

Err, since when is ageing an insult? You'd think the 'let's not be sex stereotyping' peoples wouldn't be so 'sensitive' to women's faces becoming more masculinised with ageing as lack of oestrogen will do.

The pathological propensity to weaponise facts as abuse is quite the MO in these parts…