"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 2

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany

Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

That line about I was in the army and we didn't have the luxury of separate changing etc - well that was your choice and I bet there are many more shitty things that happen in the military. We are not at war, we are doing a job and shouldn't expect to be sharing changing facilities with a man in tatty boxers.

Infuriating that's he's said to her (not verbatim) "you never saw Rose doing anything inappropriate".

YES. HE WENT IN THE WOMEN'S CHANGING ROOMS. I'd say that was about as 'inappropriate' as it gets, apart from turning up in a primary school.

And if it's so great sharing with men in the army, tell me why you use the women's changing room at the hospital??? Why not go in the men's?

Might it be possible for an organisation like Sex Matters to be an intervenor and spell the issue out in words of one syllable?

Posts from the first afternoon session 24 October:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1981695734836789495.html

Probably not at this stage, but potentially. Intervenors are advised to apply early.

Less vindictive? They threatened to cancel a woman's necessary surgery if she didn't agree to have a man there of whom she was afraid, and with whom she was in the middle of a dispute.
.
Less vindictive my arse!

Well fucking quite.
I am experiencing a regrettable desire to thwack SC on the head.
With the very softest of soft cushions of course, nothing like a cricket bat, oh dear me no.🤐

It's good when the nurses come up with their own snippets of horror

Makes them all sound more convincing and not rehearsed

I've given in and downloaded the app. Still WFTCHTJ, is anyone else back in yet?

From TT

This is the second session of the afternoon on Day 3 of the hearing of Bethany Hutchison and others vs County Durham & Darlington NHS Foundation Trust - "the Darlington Nurses" case. We hope to resume in ten minutes.

Thanks Myrtle.

Just back in @teawamutu

No audio in my room.

Ooh sound is back!

This is the nastiest bit of it all isn't it. I was an ODP manager. If a female member of staff was having any kind of surgery, we'd ensure a female team. I've looked after lots of colleagues, and when I've had surgery, even when no longer working in theatres, I was given a female team.

This was a particularly vindictive - and deliberate - act by the hierarchy at Darlington.

From TT

J - What we want to understand from media file, June 2024, where was the photo taken
MG -Lisa's back garden
J - Witness bundle page 141 statement, bottom of page para 97 'for example...'
MG we weren't wearing uniform. I know we have scrubs on but they were provided

J - what were they?
MG provided by Daily Mail
J was there any other occasion when photo in nurses uniform, the only one?
MG [didn't catch] sound muffled
J - any more q
-you were asked how long worked at Trust, since summer 2021?

I have a zoom call at 4pm, so I will stop at 3.55pm. Can someone else please take over then if the court is still sitting?

The BBC reporting I've seen so far has been pretty fair, including a clip from the local BBC news. I wonder if Tribunal Tweets has caused them to up their game? They know people can follow what has actually been said via TT on X, so perhaps this puts media outlets like the BBC under more pressure to report accurately.

Or maybe they have taken on board the vast amounts of complaints they have had about how they report on this issue!

Yes it was. Horrendous behaviour. Indefensible as far as I'm concerned

Very clear. Let's suppose Rose is not claiming to be a woman, just a common-or-garden man, but he wants to use the women's CR and the hospitals says, "Sure, crack on."

What would the risk be to the nurses? Sexual assault. Voyeurism. Filming. Rape. Loss of privacy. Loss of dignity. Sexist comments. Mockery.

Just the same risks as Rose presents. Just the same risks as Rose would present if Rose had "fully" transitioned (except rape, if we say rape has to use a penis). How can they possibly believe any differently?

What would be the risk if Rose was really a woman? Pretty much none of the above, except mockery and body-shaming perhaps, which I think would be an HR matter. I've never yet heard of women filming each other in changing rooms or toilets, or voyeurism, or sexual assault, and certainly not rape. Yet some transwomen do all of those things. Are the hospital bosses and HR really so ignorant?

From TT

I took time out my father passed away
NF - you said you were with one of the healthcares, did you mean health care assistant?
MG yes

NF - about correspondence July Aug 24. [quotes letters and RH complaint] You said that at this point you found this quite stressful. Could you please go to the second page 53b top box of that. First page 8 August top of page, how you are feeling? Very anxious, not sleeping

..not sleeping' Bit lower down your concerns 'no homelife concerns only to do with work' What is employee assistance programme?
MG - apps you can use. I didn't use that I tended to go on walks, that's how I deal with pressure.

From TT

NF - Page 53 last page your statement, you describe medical condition triggered by stress, you were forced to go on sick leave triggered by letters August.
MG - yes
Thank you, no more questions.
J - thank you that completes your evidence.

Done for the day, evidence-wise. Resume on Monday at 10:00.

From TT

J - we won't get to another witness and we need to deal with housekeeping.

NF - SC and I discussed we should empty room for witness orders. [missed, sound poor]