Met Police will no longer investigate Non Crime Hate Incidents

[Ellerby]

This is very breaking. Evan Davies just said it on R4 news. Will try and get a link.

Bloody brilliant!!!

You can still have non crime incidents recorded against you, they will still be shown in DBS checks, and you will not know they are there.

The only change is, they won’t spend time investigating them. So I can accuse Jo Bloggs of a hate incident and he will potentially fail DBS stuff on my say so, while unaware.

Hate Crimes are still investigated, it’s the ‘not a crime’ nastiness which is very subjective and has no structure around it, which will no longer be investigated BUT will still be recorded against people.

So trouble makers can harass others by making reports against them without their awareness.

Yes.

Not good then, at all, apart from police saying we won’t waste time on it.

It all needs to go.

Too much to hope they'll drop the one against Helen Joyce

I think in Helens case she has had an actual crime recorded on her record rather than a NCHI

But how will the police know there has been a NCHI to record if they don’t investigate it? Will they just record all the reports without engaging any kind of test?🧐

Sounds worse if that’s it.

There has to be a crime. So bellowing aggressively at someone in the street is a public order offence- a crime. Add in a racial slur and it’s a hate crime.

The key difference is that if I were to say out loud that men in dresses should not be in women’s changing rooms, that’s a non crime hate incident, but they won’t be visiting to educate me anymore. They’ll just record it for posterity.

If I were to shout that “f### ### should be strung up”, that is a crime and depending who I’m targeting may be a hate crime. If it’s Bill next door, probably not a hate crime. If it’s someone with a protected characteristic it probably will be.

NotALawyer.

what exactly do you want to happen to people who haven’t committed crimes

It's never been illegal to be a dick. The consequences for this behaviour have always been societal not criminal. It's not illegal to call women sluts either (or TERFS). Are you equally upset about that? Or has the fact that society doesn't condemn slurs against women in the same way as it does racist or homophobic slurs made you less offended by that?

??

So being racist shouldn't be a crime?

@spannasaurus Fair do's I didn't realise that.

Fair Cop have pointed out that during their judicial review of NCHIs in 2021, the College of Policing admitted that they never did investigate NCHIs, they just logged them against the accused.

So it seems nothing has actually changed here.

It's Non Crime Hate Incidents that are being discussed so not any actual crime.

Let's say I overheard you call Isla Bryson a man and I think that's hateful transphobic speech so I report you to the police for a NCHI. Let's assume I know who you are so am able to give the police your details. The police don't tell you anyone has made a complaint but record the NCHI.

You apply for a new job with an enhanced DBS which shows the NCHI and as a consequence you don't get the job. You might not know why so may still be unaware that there is a NCHI recorded.

Is that fair?

I am vehemently against people slut shaming women, bullying women and assaulting them, a lot more than most people are i can assure you

But also, given the rise of the far right, its gonna be okay for someone to stop a Muslim woman in the street to call her the p word?

Or to do monkey gestures towards a black driver in another car?

and This is something that is being celebrated?

I'm honestly flabbergasted and disgusted

Well,

if we switch out the name Isla Bryson for Michelle Ageyemang and switch out 'man' for a despicable 'm' word

I would want the actions you mentioned to be taken

I'm assuming this follows on from HMIC saying last month that NHCIs should no longer be investigated or recorded. But the Met just can't resist having that record against a person's name.

Still, "we'll record it but we won't investigate it" seems to be the Met's reflex action now. Burglary has been effectively decriminalised in London and Sir Mark Rowley doesn't seem particularly bothered.

You would want someone who hasn't committed a crime, doesn't know that someone has made a report and has no chance to defend themselves to have a note made on their record that could prevent them from getting a job in the future?

No, those are actually crimes of causing harassment alarm and distress, racially aggravated.

Would you be happy to discover that you had a NCHI recorded without knowing about it.

Remember the police simply take the word of the person making the report as true

Oh right a headline for not much. I hope FSU keep going though, it’s good they’re on it.

"Racism" can mean different things to different people. Speculating about the colour of a baby's skin was considered racist by its mother, not everyone would agree. Using certain words that people object to probably would not be considered WORIADS, that would probably cover monkey gestures. So no, I dont believe this is a license for racists in it's original meaning but it may not cover everything some people want to call racist.

Public Order Act 1986
Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.
(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the person who is harassed, alarmed or distressed is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3)It is a defence for the accused to prove—

(a)that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

(b)that his conduct was reasonable.

If theyre a racist fuck then yes I do

How is that different to men cat calling women and calling them bitches when they don't respond? That's not a crime either. Neither is it eligible as an NCHI actually.
It's all just being a dick. Not illegal but generally condemned by society as bad behaviour. How are you not understanding that it was NEVER a crime in the first place. And it's not ok to record such "incidents" against someone's character without their knowledge. ESPECIALLY as it might not be true, the report is based on someone's subjective opinion of the incident. No! Either it's an actual crime and it gets investigated, or it's not and it's got fuck all to do with the police.