How did we get here?

[StormyPotatoes]

I like to hope with the Supreme Court ruling and public opinion changing rapidly we are finally moving into a new period where women’s rights and concerns matter, and biology prevails. But I don’t really understand how we got here to begin with and I really hope some knowledgeable posters can provide some background on this.

I am mid-to-late 30s. Femboi-emo kids were cute when I was a teen. I had a very huge crush on Brian Molko. Most of my male friends (and my now husband) wore eyeliner. Nobody in my year came out as gay whilst at school as the taboo still existed, but interestingly 3 girls in my mixed sex class of 30 came out as lesbians away from school (yes, they are all actual women - not men).

My exposure whilst a teenage to transsexuals was Hayley Cropper, the sympathetic and kind transwoman-played by an actual woman in Coronation Street; and Nadia, the winner of season 5 big brother, who I had forgotten all about in all honesty and was only reminded about due to current BB. It’s now occurred to me that the gender recognition act passed in the same year Nadia won BB.

At that time trans was unusual - I remember cross dressing being a thing and named, as we know, as transvestism. And I also remember, back then, so many of the historic and well documented serial killers had proclivities in cross dressing, which seems to now be downplayed.

So what happened between then and now? Why did very, very few men manage to influence the change in the Equality Act? Where did this sharp increase of trans people suddenly come from (we know it can’t be the GRA because most didn’t apply for it)?

And I think more importantly - why did both governments and media suddenly become so afraid to call a man a man? And worse, seek to punish a woman who dares to call a man a man. The GRA is one thing, but so many of the men who have been actively labelled as women by both politicians and journalists don’t hold a GRA. Where is the political and journalistic integrity they are supposed to uphold?

What happened? Not so much the boom in trans people but why they became a law of their own?

I have attempted to come back to this thread a couple of times but feel pretty exhausted following the derailments of the current detractor.

I sympathise, OP. I scroll past his posts because his aim IS to derail and I won't have it. The diligent and patient posters who do respond and correct his daft bleatings are better women than I. There are reasons, I get it, I just won't play that game for him.

A poster earlier on did give him some good advice though. Paraphrasing: "Just use the Men's. You'll be grand."

This is particularly ironical given there's no reliable way to differentiate between CIS & trans women let alone police it.

And that's probably going to be the nail in the EHRC's 'guidelines' coffin not to mention how it compromises other laws & targets unfeminine CIS women which is exactly why no other countries are silly enough to get involved.

There's the theory, then there's the practicality of separate spaces that bathrooms ain't.

Given that a sexual offence is 99 times more likely to have been committed by a man than a woman, the sexuality of women who are accused of sexual offences seems rather irrelevant.

Different groups of men offend at different rates. IE Younger, poorer, straight men offend at higher rates so to include all men seems rather irrelevant.

No. I'm saying the study doesn't show a comparative with trans people which other posters have tried to pretend it does. The study is about sex differences between CIS people.

So lemme get this straight. You want to know 'how we got here' but it's derailing the thread to explain the reasons behind the legitimising of trans people that has justified 'how we got here'.

Smells like you don't really want to know 'how we got here' but rather confirm your own biases 'of how we got here'. So maybe next time make it clear only echo chamber comments need apply?

"I also feel like I've missed something about this behavioural theory - if a man says he identifies as a woman but doesn't exhibit any of the proposed 'female behaviours', is he not a woman after all?"

No. You will need to read the thread for that as is the job of the OP.

General safeguarding principles do not discriminate between demographic groups within the sex classes.

I read the first page of this thread, but because I think the OP made a good point; just how have got in this obviously fucked-up situation? And I guess most of the responses have been made, but still a shame to see another thread worked over. All they've got, I suppose.

It is @moto748e

Apologies meant to quote @moto748e

It is @moto748e it is a bit sad that coming here posting scolding to women is probably the highlight of someone’s day and the most social interaction they get. I think there is a quote said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That’s how I see those posters. Mad as a box of frogs, usually caused by their utter rage and disbelief that women are saying no.

And evident for all to see. It’s quite baffling why they do it.

I rather like the latest attempt using the different offending rates in subsets of men, which they think supports their position when it in fact contradicts it.

Yup @borntobequiet it’s almost as if they’re just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if it sticks lol. I man, surely a better comparison would be the levels of violent crime in females with a trans identity and men?

Time for a dance number!

🎶 No such thing as cis,

No such thing as cis,

No such thing as,

No such thing as,

(Slowed down high kicking part) -

Noooo suuuuch thiiiing aaaaaaaas ciiiiis 🎶

(Jazz hands)

You seem to be assuming that most male trans people have not gone through puberty.

This is not a realistic assumption, and also excludes trans people who face face discrimination because they are clearly trans.

Violence and intimidation against women speaking to the end of 2023

https://x.com/glinner/status/1980390649246675001?s=46

On my website, JL collected almost a decade's worth of trans activist violence to disprove the "bad behaviour on both sides" myth. I just asked ChatGPT to summarize it:
Documented pattern spanning nearly a decade of violent intimidation, physical assault, property damage, vandalism of memorials, stalking, hostage-taking, and sustained harassment campaigns specifically targeting women's rights advocates, lesbians, feminists, and anyone questioning gender ideology. Only one side doing this.

2014 onwards - "Kill All TERFs"
Widespread violent threats on social media documented by website "Terf is a Slur" - rape and death threats against women.

September 2017 - Speakers Corner & Maria MacLachlan
We Need To Talk event forced to change venues after harassment. Trans activists followed attendees through Hyde Park. Meeting at University Women's Club had to be curtailed due to mob outside screaming and intimidating elderly members. MacLachlan assaulted on camera by Tara Flik Wood.

November 2017 - Social Justice Warrior at Book Fair
Woman surrounded for over an hour by 30 trans activists at anarchist bookfair, subjected to misogynistic abuse.

March 2018 - Spooking Millwall Football Club
We Need To Talk forced to cancel after relentless harassment of venue. Previous events in York and Glasgow also cancelled under pressure.

March 2018 - Violence on the Picket Line
Paula Lamont attacked on her own Bectu picket line by trans activists including Tara Flik Wood. Forced to leave for her safety.

April 2018 - The Siege in the Jam Jar
Trans activists forced their way into Bristol venue, physically blocked staircase, prevented attendees including Julie Bindel from entering. Heather Brunskell-Evans trapped in stairwell.

June 2018 - WPUK Besieged at Conway Hall
London Young Labour incited protest. Venue cancelled hours before event. Alternative venue surrounded by 100+ masked activists. Women assaulted, had projectiles and water thrown at them. One woman suffered panic attack running gauntlet of protesters.

January 2020 - Death Threats at Oxford University
Professor Selina Todd required security detail after speaking at WPUK event. Death threats credible enough for university protection.
June 2020 - Death Threats for Children's Author
JK Rowling subjected to rape and death threats after tweeting about biological sex. Continues after she published statement about concerns over gender ideology.

October 2020 - L'Amazone in Paris
Female-only space broken into by trans activists who changed locks, shut women out, vandalised artwork including memorial to murdered woman by drawing penis over it.

February 2021 - Spain's New Dictatorship
Trans activists hung effigy of First Vice President Carmen Calvo by neck from tree after she opposed self-ID laws.

March 2021 - Breaking Bones in Canada
Chris Elston assaulted approximately 20 times while campaigning. Attacked by masked thugs in Montreal who stole equipment, punched him, broke his arm.

July 2021 - Protest at Melbourne University
Trans activists organised protest calling for Dr Holly Lawford-Smith to be sacked. Women verbally abused, had water thrown at them, called c*nts. Trans-identified male shouted into woman's face with loudhailer.

August 2021 - Police Escort for Gay Man at Pride
Alexander Bramham assaulted at Manchester Pride, hat stolen, required police escort. Gay man ejected from Pride event for wearing LGB Alliance logo.

September 2021 - The Hounding of Kathleen Stock
Sussex University professor subjected to ongoing campaign of threats, harassment. Required cameras at home, bodyguards on campus. Anonymous 'Anti Terf Sussex' group posted guerrilla-style photos with smoking flares demanding she be fired. Eventually forced to resign.

September 2021 - Trying to Set Lesbians Alight
Trans-identified male attacked lesbians at Bordeaux Pride with lit flare.

October 2021 - Intimidation at FiLiA Conference
Large group of mostly male trans activists protested Portsmouth conference about ending male violence. Brandished placards with misogynistic slurs whilst women inside spoke about rape and domestic abuse.

November 2021 - Women Attacked in Brussels
Small group of women marching against male violence surrounded by 50 trans activists. Beaten, insulted, intimidated. One woman kicked in back.

April 2022 - Fantasising About Male Violence
Trans-identified male Gretchen Felker-Martin published "Manhunt" - novel featuring hunting and killing women described as "TERF soldiers" and "knights of JK Rowling". Features rape scenes and disturbing violence.

May 2022 - Bookshop Burning in Barcelona
Trans activists attacked bookshop hosting authors of "No One is Born in the Wrong Body", clashed with police, threatened to burn down shop. Authors forced to shelter inside with blinds drawn for 45 minutes.

March 2022 - Let Women Speak in Manchester #1
Large gang marched from St Peter's Square chanting "Terf scum off our streets". Disrupted WPUK meeting where speakers included Zimbabwean lesbian asylum seeker and CSA survivor discussing importance of female-only spaces.

June 2022 - Bristol Let Women Speak
Masked, hooded, predominantly male protesters screamed at women. Held signs reading "TERFs can suck my dick". Wrote "Colston - Terfs are next" on pavement (reference to torn-down statue of slave trader).

June 2022 - MP Escorted By Police at Pride
Jo Gideon, Conservative MP, subjected to non-stop abuse at Stoke Pride by 20 LGBT+ Society activists. Required police escort. Banner vandalised.

June 2022 - Let Women Speak in Barcelona
Feminists protesting male violence surrounded by trans activists screaming "Kill the TERF".

July 2022 - Destroyed Memorial to Murdered Babies
Trans activists vandalised street mural memorial to 14 babies killed by shaken baby syndrome. Collage created by grieving mothers whose babies were murdered by male partners. Vandals admitted destroying it because creators were "transphobic feminists".

August 2022 - Let Women Speak in Philadelphia
Trans activists with drums, noise makers, megaphones tried to drown out women. Crowded Kara Dansky, tried to grab mic, screamed "Shut the fuck up", gave continual thumbs down. Police unprepared.

August 2022 - Let Women Speak in Port Townsend
80-year-old Julie Jarman barred from pool after protesting male employee in women's changing room watching little girls undress. Women's press conference attacked by trans activists. Activists threw equipment, tore flags, damaged property, screamed in faces. Man with AR-15 over trans flag on cap present. Aggressive men shouting at Black woman and rape survivor.

September 2022 - The New Homophobia
Lesbian Strength march in Leeds disrupted by trans activists.

September 2022 - Attacking a Stonewall Veteran
Fred Sargeant, 74-year-old gay rights pioneer who was at original Stonewall riot and organised first Pride march (1970), assaulted at Burlington Pride. Pushed to ground, hit on head, jabbed with umbrella, had coffee poured on him. Required hospitalisation. Over $550 property stolen/damaged.

September 2022 - Let Women Speak in Brighton
Trans activists arrested for assault, obstructing police officer, and sexual assault by touching.

October 2022 - Portland Cancellation
Event cancelled after credible death threats by Antifa. Portland police unable to offer protection. Isabel Rosa Araujo (Antifa militant) publicly fundraised for pepper spray, collapsible baton, Bowie knife. Made open threats: "Smash On Sight", "Make TERFs afraid again". Few brave women who did gather were attacked.

October 2022 - Let Women Speak in Tacoma
Despite death threats, police refused presence. Man in short skirt rushed Lierre Keith at mic. April Hutchinson had fingers deliberately crushed and broken by male activist's bare hands. Trans activists advertised with image of boot stamping on women.

November 2022 - Mob at New York City Hall
Kellie-Jay Keen unable to reach podium due to aggressive demonstrators. Large crowd of trans activists and Antifa members required barricades. Demonstrators spat at women, chanted insults, used whistles/bells/drums/alarms, fought with NYPD, breached barricades, followed and threatened attendees.
Two topless trans-identified males grabbed and fondled own "breasts" whilst screaming at women. Amara Gisele Jones Velasquez screamed "I'm going to beat your ass", "These titties are way more real than you", "No man wants you", called 77-year-old LGBT activist "fucking faggot".
NYPD Strategic Response Group deployed. Unlawful assembly declared. Multiple arrests. Eli Erlich (accused of rape/sexual assault) bragged "We glitterbombed, pied, flipped off, screamed at, spit on, and cursed TERFs".

December 2022 - Shit-Throwing in Brussels
Céline Masson and Caroline Eliacheff (authors of "The Making of the Transgender Child") attacked at Brussels café. Twenty hooded men threw pots containing litter and excrement at attendees, tried to assault speakers, vandalised venue.

January 2023 - Storming McGill University
Professor Robert Wintemute (37 years defending LGB rights) prevented from giving talk at McGill. 100 trans activists stormed discussion. Attendees physically assaulted - shoved, pushed, blasted with bullhorns, one pushed to ground. Professor had flour thrown at him.

March 2023 - UCL Feminist Conference
Feminist conference featuring Joanna Cherry KC, Julie Bindel, Helen Joyce besieged. Sarah Jane Baker (30 years for kidnap/torture/attempted murder) yelled "c*nts" at women. Activists banged on windows, screamed. Kate Worley (DJ Lippy) assaulted - phone wrestled away and thrown, thumbs pulled back, bruised.

February 2023 - Storming Mexican Congress
Trans activists stormed Mexico City Congress protesting legislation to prevent child medicalisation. Smashed doors and windows, threw rocks, graffitied. Victoria Sámano forced way through, fought security guards.

March 2023 - Auckland Mob
Kellie-Jay Keen's New Zealand event besieged by "feral" mob before it started. Predominantly men, not in dresses. Shoved women, screamed in faces. Broke through barriers, descended on rotunda. Kellie-Jay doused with tomato juice, grabbed, jostled, stomped on. Mob tried to trip, punch her, grabbed clothing.

March 2023 - Assault in Vancouver
Chris Elston mobbed and surrounded by masked male activists in camouflage. One lunged at him twice, jabbed hand in his face. Another activist threw Elston's supporter to floor whilst police watched. Trans-identified male with long blond hair screamed "Fuck you!" repeatedly in Elston's face. Police did nothing.

April 2023 - Threats in Nantes
Symposium "Woman, Life, Freedom" supporting Afghan/Iranian women postponed after threats of "rotten eggs and baseball bats" from trans activists. Poster circulated with knife superimposed. Organiser faced "absolutely monstrous violence".

April 2023 - Riley Gaines Held Hostage
Riley Gaines speaking at San Francisco State University heckled throughout. After speech, mob burst in, turned off lights. Man in women's clothing hit her twice - shoulder then face. Cornered in hallway with no exit. Barricaded in office for three hours whilst mob hammered walls screaming "Open the door, we want Riley", "This is vengeance". Eventually required SFPD cordon and had to run to car as mob chased her. Left at 2am.

April 2023 - Gay Man Assaulted by Belfast Bar Staff
Man assaulted by staff at Robinson's bar Belfast after Standing For Women event.

July 2023 - Incitement to Violence at Trans Pride
Sarah Jane Baker told London Trans Pride crowd: "If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face". Cheered loudly. Recording shared by official London Trans Pride Instagram who defended it: "Sarah and many others hold a lot of rage and they have the right to express that anger".

July 2023 - Woman Seriously Assaulted in Aberdeen
Julie Marshall assaulted at Women Won't Wheesht event. Male activist struck her full in face with sign, glasses flew off, then punched her in arm. Suffered black eye and severe bruising. Esme Houston, trans-identified organiser of protest, celebrated male violence on social media.

August 2023 - 'Millions of Dead Terfs' in San Francisco
WDIUSA conference at Hilton Hotel besieged. Trans activists outside making sexually aggressive gestures, chanting obscenities. Hotel locked doors. One activist held sign "millions of dead terfs". Eight scaled fence trying to attack Meghan Murphy and K Yang on rooftop. They had to run. One attacker physically assaulted hotel general manager.
Nearby art exhibition "A Nasty Piece of Work: The Art of Dissident Feminists" featuring work by lesbian and Black African artists also targeted.

November 2023 - Portland Violence
WDI event at Multnomah County Library. Trans activists stalked organisers to AirBNB, slashed car tyres. Vandalised library - smashed glass doors, spray-painted graffiti. Library forced to close. Event moved outside. 30-50 masked male trans activists descended on 10 women. Threw cans, pepper-sprayed women directly in faces causing temporary blindness. Punched women, pushed them down, kicked them on ground. Four hospitalised. Equipment stolen, phones snatched/destroyed. Elderly uninvolved woman in 70s pushed down. Portland Police never responded to multiple 911 calls reporting active assaults.

Well, that's quite a list

We could add a fair bit to it for 2024 and 2025

And of course it is in no way exhaustive on the period it does cover

The next Labour MP who whimpers on about "toxic debate, violence on both sides..." should have that list printed out and rammed down his/her throat.

Here is another example of intimidation of women

https://x.com/whtwldbabsdo/status/1980994292891214198?s=46

A guest lecturer at Bristol University discussing the abuse women experience online when discussing the issues that negatively impact us, ended up having to move lecture rooms due to angry male voices outside led by a male voice on a loud speaker and drums. The signs pushed against the windows and male faces at the windows were only about intimidation and seeking to silence the lecture.

This moment was captured though. A slide depicting that abuse, along with the meme that so many of us saw posted constantly on twitter, being discussed while placards are being pressed against windows and male faces are visibly looking in the windows. You really couldn’t make this shit up.

But apparently, it is ‘both sides’. Apparently, women speaking is provoking this response and we should have expected this response because such an oppressed group cannot be expected to take their oppression lying down. It really is men telling women to STFU.

Are there any philosophers here who would want to comment on whether postmodernism has softened up the ground for all this? I'm no expert but my understanding is that postmodernism is suspicious of claims that something is objectively true, and prefers to look at the power structures underlying a truth claim. So, no objective truth leads to everyone having their own truth, which leads to self-ID.