TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

How appallingly rude.

Not at all, you're absolutely not a good little woman

Well said 👏

EXCUSE ME, I've repeatedly asked you simple questions and just got deflections, dodging and cherrypicking of half sentences.

And now you have the gall, you have the ALMIGHTY CRUST, to accuse anyone else of taking YOU out of context? Of not parsing your pearls of wisdom with sufficient attention?

While you've been hogging this thread with your philosophical bloviations, while sneering at SA survivors whose experience is beneath you?

You're a bloke. Nothing will convince me otherwise.

I really don't see the point in all this.

Tandora, you're never going to convince women here that you're right any more than they are going to convince you that they are right. There can be millions of threads and sniping all day and night and it won't get anywhere.

Everyone has to manage to live together, everyone needs accessible services, the only way is for gender ideologists to tolerate that some of those services exist for those women and leave them alone. End of issue.

I'm trying to think of how to explain what I mean again. Honestly it's so bloody hard in the format of social media and when both "sides" of this discussion are so entrenched in their camps. And the thread is nearly full..

Tandora couldn't follow a logical argument from her front door to the pavement outside.

There is nothing but nebulous waffling. And insults when called out. She knows damn well what a woman is, and what a man is, and for reasons that are probably quite obvious, one being that her financial stability and career depends on it, one possibly being that she has a horse in the race, she will never back down, like a malfunctioning terminator.

Scold away....

Everyone has to manage to live together, everyone needs accessible services, the only way is for gender ideologists to tolerate that some of those services exist for those women and leave them alone. End of issue.

I mean.... the other side of that would be to say, that GC feminists are going to have to realise that they don't have the entitlement to throw trans people out of public facilities . End of issue.

I don’t get what this poster gets from these boards, except a weird need for attention maybe. It’s very strange.

Okey dokey. 👍🏻

Er they do, the Supreme Court said so.

This will get deleted but @Tandora is a disgrace and not posting in good faith. I think she's just spouting word salad nonsense without logic or reason. Particularly appalling they way she dismisses and refuses to engage with women who have genuine questions about single sex spaces.

I think that’s the best description I’ve heard @murasaki

No ones throwing them out of public facilities. They just need to stay out of opposite sex spaces

One shared by the great majority of the British public according to the increasingly negative attitudes captured by successive YouGov opinion polls towards the presence of trans-identified people in the spaces, services and sports intended for the other sex. Transactivists have overreached themselves and damaged the cause they profess to support.

Well they do if they’re in such facilities not for them, as it’s the law.

They've come back like a perpetual verruca in this last week. Have they all come back from Turkey BPGOF ops or something? Why the sudden rush to MN to police us again - is this something the Green Party are now funding? Already pissed they took over the Lib Dems but now they're trying to tell us about fucking MAFS UK - for so small at % of the population they really are joy hoovers.

Never a truer word spoken. Brava.

We need to accept men in our single sex spaces blah blah blah.

If you like we can discuss on a future thread if this fills up too quickly, I feel it's been an interesting conversation even though we have talked past each other at times.

My conclusion was perfectly reasonable.

You are trying to tell me that a MAN can feel what I felt? And that I had an tfmr. Which is legally and medically called an abortion. Because. I. Didn’t. Like. How. My. Baby looked.

id never fucking seen his face. How the fuck I was supposed to know what he looked like is beyond me.

and THEN you have the utter GALL and barefaced cheek to say “well I had an abortion too”. Trauma trumps.

AND THEN you continue to make out that I’m THE LIAR?

I hope to god you never have to experience what I did but quite frankly your empathy chip needs adjusting.

A MAN whether he thinks he is a woman, an aubergine or a banana will NEVER IN HIS FUCKING CHUFF feel what I felt.

Tandora:

"To me what matters is describing what is actually true/ exists. - this is a person who has some observable male physical characteristics/ traits, but nonetheless recognises/ understands themself to be female."

You mean like a penis and testicles?

I mean.... the other side of that would be to say, that GC feminists are going to have to realise that they don't have the entitlement to throw trans people out of public facilities . End of issue.

Well.... they're not being thrown out of public facilities, merely being told that they cannot use the ones for the opposite sex. There are their own and just about everywhere, there are unisex toilets, as well.

It's just catastrophising emotional blackmail.

The police do though. And the service providers based on the SC decision so there’s that.

more lies.

Recent quotes:

I cannot be held responsible for interpretations of people who are not reading the context and jumping to conclusions.

I have no doubt it felt that way if you were unable to follow the logic of the conversation.

deflections, dodging and cherrypicking of half sentences

I'm trying to think of how to explain what I mean again

There are quite a few people who refer to abstract expression and ambiguity etc. in Tandora's responses - and this is on our side, too. It's partly the nature of the subject, and certainly a part of what makes it interesting.

But also... we need the concrete and finite, too. I know it's really difficult to limit answers in that way. I mean, behind my current views are probably hundreds of hours of reading different perspectives and experiences on both sides (though I know I need to do more reading on the so-called trans-inclusive side). And they're not necessarily views I reached easily or even find entirely comfortable, and I could write pages on each to explain it, qualify it, worry about it... but I can still express each one clearly, in brief. Like:

Do trans people exist? Yes, of course [although I could spend much longer on societal confusion about what's meant by trans, de-transitioners, the practical and ethical implications of applying the term to children who may subsequently desist and to other cultures etc.]

Do females deserve single sex spaces? Yes, absolutely [although I could expand on why I include trans men here].

Can at least some trans people reasonably be expected to use spaces in alignment with their sex? Yes, based on trans people's own testimonies.

Are trans people as at risk physically from doing the above, as women are in mixed sex spaces? No, both from a very reluctantly utilitarian count-the-numbers perspective, and also based on currently available evidence... As such, though, this definitely needs to be looked into more.

Do trans people deserve appropriate accommodation too, which doesn't undermine the extant provision for female people? Yes, and it's a source of ongoing frustration and distress to me that this hasn't been the focus of activist groups, leading to adequate or improving provision now instead of distress and uncertainty.

Tandora, can you answer my numbered questions above in a similar way?

Going back to basics, what do you believe?

It may actually help posters to understand better.