TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

And yet again you pick on one sentence to reply to while ignoring the rest of a post which asks serious questions which matter to very many women. You really don't like women much, do you?

You've been deleted @Datun Would you be able to post it again, without the last line?

You really don't like women much, do you?

So if I don't choose to respond to aspects of your posts it's because I don't like women? 😄
Starting to get a little more insight into your internal logics and how they've produced the kinds of attitudes you have.

What other treatments for gender dysphoria exist other than transition?

The facts of what you say.

And because my post was reported, I have copied it below, leaving out the deletable part.

"It wasn't meant as a jibe, so much as a statement of fact.

You are retrofitting your ardent desire for men in women spaces to fit a series of made up situations.

It begins with a neurological condition, which you want to be unarguable, and therefore not a choice, not a fetish, not a result of stereotype rejection, trauma or homosexuality.

You then claim that as a result, gender dysphoria arises, which is so awful for the person, that this is where women's empathy must be leveraged. All pervasive, persistent, unrelenting, etc.

The only way to alleviate this horror is women forgoing all their rights.

And you pussyfoot around telling women that if they don't comply, they are transphobic bigots.

Even tho you've said it in a roundabout Way a couple of times. You won't directly come out and say it, because you know what it make you look like.

So no, in my opinion you're not an expert you're an ideologue."

Tandora · Today 15:06

I don't think "gender" is separate to "sex".
Rather, "sex", has several layers/ components (with variations across each layer).

But that's absolute piffle, with no factual basis. In exceptionally rare cases of DSD, a baby may be wrongly observed as the opposite sex, but later in life, the truth will become apparent.

And it's got nothing to do with people who merely wish to be the opposite sex.

Sex really isn't complicated, as you state. Your scenario only exists in your mind,not reality.

Tandora

Do you think transition is inappropriate for trans people who are not dysphoric?

What does it mean to be a non-dysphoric trans person?

Has anyone explained yet why this "gender identity" requires accomodation in opposite sex provisions yet?

What is the relationship between sex and gender identity such that a trans person's gender identity causes them to look at people of the opposite sex and think "I'm just like them?"

No I'm not, because that's all gender is. Stereotypes - masculine and feminine -which are attached to the two sex classes of male and female, which are the only physical realities in this discussion.

Well people may be offered psychological support. Typically in the UK what happens after a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, is a long period of simply waiting/ observing/ ongoing assessment. Or they may do nothing.

Gender identity is merely how one relates to sex stereotypes. That is the sum total of it.

Yes, I have.

So no, in my opinion you're not an expert, you're an ideologue

I have to agree with this. I do so with a heavy heart because I do want to believe that people are generally rational and reasoned, but it is the drip, drip, drip of let the men in, let the men in, let the men in that gives it away.

We're back again to the fact that gender stereotypes are the tool used to oppress people of a certain biological sex. The female sex.

Tandora never did tell me why Afghani girls can't just identify as boys and go to school.

That is both the very first and the very last part of every single "debate".

"Before we start our debate on transgenderism we need to be clear - sex is real and matters, and in the absence of any arguments to the contrary gender means precisely nothing in a sex-based world."

[Three hours of trying to nail jelly to a wall]

"It was very interesting listening to you, Mr and Mrs TRA, but you were talking about gender. Why on earth do you think that makes any difference to what we do in the real world where sex is real and matters?"

Come on Tandora. just be upfront.

Do you think it is transphobic if women say no to men identifying as women in their spaces.

Let's be specific - public toilets and changing rooms?

No . Gender identity has nothing to do with stereotypes and expression.

You know you are female right? That's your gender identity. As you correctly note, that doesn't imply anything at all about how you will dress, what you will like to do, what your interests are , etc. It is simply the recognition/ self-awareness of sex as being female.

This cognition (the development of which has been studied in psychology in non-trans children since the 1960s) is something that almost all children acquire in early childhood and is a normal part of child development.

I'm just going to mention here that, though I'm not always concise, I usually do have a point. And I don't think I'm very obscure in expressing myself.

If I write a longish post with a substantive point, and it's responded to by quoting one sentence while ignoring the rest of the post, I notice. I think others following the discussion notice too.

If that happens repeatedly, I draw my own conclusions about the questions some people don't want to answer.

You know you are female right? That's your gender identity.

How do I know I'm female?

Well you used the phrase 'self awareness of sex as being female' in your later text. So you do know that sex and gender identity are different. So why can't we have single sex spaces.

Quite. Tandora will not answer my two questions.

Is it transphobic for women to say no to men identifying as women in their spaces?

And what exactly is it that makes a man think he's a woman. Considering how all pervasive it is, there's not a single, solitary example given.

Because of course, there isn't anything other than stereotypes.

If incredulity could be manifested in one single sentence, that's it 😂

You need to stop and read more carefully before replying, Tandora. It wasn't my post I was referring to, but another poster whom you have twice swerved replying to despite her having carefully rephrased her questions to bring out the salient points about the damage to women's rights of trans inclusion based on self-ID. I call that disrespectful.

So, and pelase correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Some people have gender dysphoria which is a mental health condition and can be diagnosed. These people can be treated with psychological support and / or medical transition.

Other people are trans. This is not a mental health condition. These people can be left untreated or they can be treated with psychological support and / or medical transition.

Other than the preference of the individual, is there any way we can know which gender dysphoric people and which trans people without dysphoria should be given psychological support and which should be given medical transition?

Come on, Tandora, answer that.

How does any woman know they are female? What does their gender identity feel like.