Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 3

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5420656-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

I would love to know what made the J ask AL about live Tweets, and reminding him that he’s under oath.

Well that was as short and sweet and more or less ran as planned, except Monday afternoon.

I must now go do "stuff"

Hmmmm 🤔 Something must have happened!

Goodbye room-with-the-awful-acoustics.

Thank you @MarieDeGournay for doing the TT Tweets this morning. Much appreciated.

Right I'm off to cook chicken cacciatore for dinner.

<checks anxiously that my anonymity is secure behind a username> phew it is.

OK I admit it, I confess and prostrate myself before you begging forgiveness:
I assumed the judge was a man😱

After you've all forgiven me, could a couple of you help me up please?😁

NC = you should have faced down objections and told staff you have to obey the law.
AL - that's your view

No you utter and complete twonk of a wazzock
its the Law

When DH and I were at the theatre recently, we agreed to get drinks in. We also both needed the loo. He suggested I go and get the drinks while he went to the loo - I said, "Er, no! I'll go to the loo and beat the queue." He was just oblivious!

I needed to go back and read the previous thread as I've been following whilst working. I have to say that was a refreshing change of pace in terms of the judge's control over matters, and the quiet common respect and decency shown by the barristers towards one another!

Another Q has occurred to me just based on the J asking when the HR bloke became aware of men randomly using the women’s loo - he seemed to indicate he wasn’t aware of requests from men to use the women’s loos & he wasn’t aware of any requests made. So am I correct in assuming this company had men larping as women take it upon themselves to use the women’s loos, without any requests to do so? Based upon the claimed ‘long established yet unwritten’ policy of self ID for using toilet facilities?

This all seems a tad odd to me 🤔

Do we know how Maria is being funded? I'm thinking NC is picking her cases very well; excellent claimants, important legal principles in this and the SP case. By the time SP gets through with her union, there won't be many skittles left standing

As the Dowager Countess (in Downton) said about her ladies maid: she lives for intrigue.

That’s me, that is!

I think you’re spot on. I completely agree.

Yes, ST really showed JR up as the respondent's KC. She knows how to behave.

Do any of them ever ask? For example, Upton told, rather than asked. And it's a short hop from telling and knowing it will be accepted to not bothering with the telling as it will be accepted

NC: need to obey the law
AL: that's your view

NC deployed one of her silences after this, just to make sure the judge had a good note.

Very different claimants too - as has already been noted by pp - and in very different sectors. It seems strategic, flags up that whoever and wherever you are, if you’re female, you’re affected.

Do we know if the trans ID men were new joiners? Perhaps straight from school - uni route etc... where Stonewall ideology prevailed?

If JKR was still writing HP, I would be convinced that Umbridge was based on Jane Russell.
There’s obviously an archetype in there.

I may have misunderstood, but did AL confirm no TW had asked to use the female toilets? So, in effect, this all happened by default?

I am Honoured at that kindness.

The Hon Professor Emeritus?

No, too much.

I’d bet they’re middle aged travellers to Malaga.

I've recently seen 'Professor Emerita'.

Ahem

That was my take. No one asked "to my knowledge".