Expressing 'gender critical' views

[ArabellaSaurus]

If you hold gender critical views-

-There are two sexes
-Sex is immutable
-Biological sex matters, and laws relating to sex should be based on sex not 'gender'

• please tell me if you feel able to express these views:

-To friends and family
-On social media
-In a professional context

I'm keen to hear whether women in particular feel that their right to freedom of belief and freedom of expression is upheld in the UK today.

Many thanks.

Im in Ireland. And it's come up often in my friend groups, but we all have sporty kids so the idea of mixed sex sport and competition is widely considered outrageous.
Family wise some are fine. But i have some Be Kind relatives and a ftm cousin, so it.gets a bit sensitive.
Work is fine but occasionally tricky as we operate in a very "progressive" space.

Bizarre that you can’t see the glaringly obvious issues with placing men who say they are women to live in a confined space (with lower security measures than a male prison) with vulnerable women, mostly with a history of sexual and physical abuse at the hands of men.

Even the government recognised the problem with placing men who had committed sexually violent crimes against women in with women. Paris Green would be eligible because he murdered a man with a serious sexual attack, not a woman.

Just try putting yourself in their position - being locked up with Barbie Kardashian, Paris Green or Isla Bryson for example and yes, a woman could be locked in a holding cell with a violent criminal man ahead of visiting hours.

If you are genuinely arguing that it is not an issue because you personally haven’t heard it said by your rather limited sample size of women, I feel like you are missing something important.

It's a fact that women prisoners are disciplined for misgendering. Going into the NHS (accompanied by a prison officer) and surrounded by all the gender loons with their rainbow lanyards and "pregnant people / cervix havers" anti women, dehumanising language - of course they'll not mention a single word.

Even if they got a private conversation unheard by a prison officer they'll never know whether they're talking to someone genuinely woman centred or one of the toxic ideologues so caught up in various beliefs / ideologies that care for pregnant women and babies takes second place. For evidence take your pick from the Ockenden reports, numerous enquiries through to the forthcoming review into 14 maternity services to be led by Baroness Amos.

Family: Yes
Friends: Mixed.

• Indepth terfy convos with one close friend only, both up on current developments etc.
• There's a few mates who, when the topic comes up, make a light joke or seem relieved when I make a joke, so it's clear we are sane and on the same page, but we don't discuss it in depth.
• "Be kind" friends who pronoun police and scold me, so we tend to avoid the topic.
• A trans identified female friend cut off contact with me which worries me. I can't know what she's telling other people about my views, which I think are more nuanced than she'll credit me for.*

Social media: only using anon accounts. I have two Reddit accounts for this reason, and use one purely for GC matters, and this one has been banned from various subs. Work: Impossible, I work in higher education.

*That said, I am always heartened hearing about other terrible women with "unsafe" views, even though the information is being passed on in a disapproving manner. Gaun yerself doll, I silently cheer. Or innocently ask questions about what they actually did/said that was transphobic, then look puzzled.

A good conversation overheard in the pub last night - criticism of men in women’s sports. I was heartened to hear some good facts and opinions supportive of women bc fairness.

Yes mate! You know what they’re saying behind your back reads like a daily mail headline! The irony! How f*ing progressive

This. Why not go to your workplace LGBTQI group and tell the “trans rights” supporters the same?

It’s notable how kind everyone on here is about their non GC associates. For me it’s been a good way to purge the ignorant, belligerent non critical thinkers. I can tolerate less intelligent people as long as they’re open to a conversation and I’ve found most aren’t on this subject, either that or they come back with some watery excuse for logic.

Family - yes. Currently not affirming our 12yo sons (sudden onset) demigirl identity/feminine name/alternate pronouns with full family support (he has lots of support and love, we've just stepped in and put a stop to some online communities/chatgpt use and are concentrating on a stronger/closer home life). Even he understands it, doesn't think we're transphobic and almost seems slightly relieved we've got involved

Friends - some of them, others who I'm not sure if they're into the ideology I don't talk to about gender stuff

Social media - sort of. Anonymously like here then yes, proper social media I don't tend to get into stuff on

Work - no. I run a small business and don't post opinions on politics or anything divisive

I have one family member who is trans-identifying and fully genderwoo, puberty blockers, males in women's sports, all of it. They have gone no-contact with me after I stated my views and my reasons and asked them to explain various things which they couldn't (e.g why all the self-ID stuff applies to sex but not ethnicity, age etc which actually are a spectrum).

But I have another who is very virtue-signalling, overtly supports the trans family member, posts their allyship all over SM, states pronouns and all the rest of it. I had to discuss the issue with him recently because of a specific situation and started out by saying I knew we disagreed and I was OK with that and could we respectfully discuss it, and found we were able to have an honest chat. Turns out this person has massive doubts about the whole thing, absolutely would not consider a trans person to be their proclaimed sex as a relationship partner, thinks a lot of trans-identifying young people are just confused and maladaptively dealing with other issues, and basically had a lot of time for my GC thoughts. Was not expecting that.

Yes still continues to he/him it up and pretend to be ally no. 1 and publicly sucks up to any trans person he encounters. I think this may be to avoid persecution at work or because he has a lot of friends who would disown him otherwise. But it was very interesting to see the difference between the "cover" and the reality. Some people have swallowed the lot, switched critical thinking ability off (if they ever had it) and no amount of evidence or reality will get through to them. But many many more IMO are not like that - they're just covering up because they have to, because they've mentally brushed it under the carpet or they don't want to rock the boat.

This is why I think the whole situation is subject to a tipping-point effect - the easier it is made to be honest, the more people will let go of the pretence. I totally agree that it sorts the sheep from the goats but a lot of people are in between and in cognitive dissonance that instinctively they do want to resolve.

I’m more towards your side. I can’t take people seriously if they genuinely espouse gender identity ideology.

I'd argue that your role in the captured NHS and your probably discernable view that TWAW makes it unlikely that any of the prisoners you work with would express their concerns about sharing prisons with men.

Immediate family - yes, they know my views. My children look uneasy when I voice it though. Not sure if that’s because they disagree or because they are aware it’s unacceptable for their generation to agree.

Wider family and friends - I’m very careful not to make my views known unless and until I’ve sounded them out. Several of my friends have trans children and although I think k there is worry and concern there their public stance is to support their child’s choices. I don’t want to lose friendships so stay silent.

social media - other than mumsnet, no way.

Work - I won’t pretend to hold views that I don’t. No pronouns in my email signature. But after a couple of very difficult conversations I am keeping my head below the parapet. I think people know, guess or suspect at work but I am not going to put myself in the firing line.

Yes, it’s very odd that someone who professes to be gender critical but thinks it’s a luxury belief that people with “real” problems, or dealing with “really important” issues in their community, simply don’t have time for - should nonetheless have the time to come here and post repeatedly telling us why none of it matters in the grand scheme of things and it’s a huge waste of anyone’s time to focus on it at all.

Surely, LoftyRobin, posting on this thread is a huge waste of your precious time and resources, and you’d be using them much better dealing with all the things you say are so much more crucial that you’ve no energy left over for anything else?

I mean, what exactly was so important to you about posting here, that you decided you could in fact take time out from the very important stuff you’re so busy with to do so? That you made this your priority, and not any of the other far more pressing concerns in your life, for those particular minutes of your day?

How does it work in Ireland with sport because you don't have a concept of "sex" anymore do you?

I wonder how you manage to keep the men out of things like grass-roots heptathlon so Kate O'Connor can rise to the top and win medals ;)

I don't use pronouns in my email signature or on our website. Someone did once ask me about it but I got away with it by saying my name was definitely female, whereas he had a unisex name like Alex so it was better if he made clear he was male (though his picture is on the website). He accepted that and that was the end of it.

Fundamentally, Ireland is a deeply hypocritical place. Self ID for adults might be law, but sport, especially GAA is religion and insurance costs are vast, so practically it's not a issue on the ground.

I hold GC views to an extent. I don’t believe anyone can change sex, I think gender dysphoria is real though, and believe the small proportion it actually affects (not the large proportion who don’t conform to gender stereotypes and think “changing gender” is the answer) have the right to be protected and respected if they want to “live as the opposite sex” but I’ll never see them as a real woman/man. Mixed views about female-only spaces (eg. If a trans woman has had full surgery, penis removed and presents and mostly passes as a woman I don’t have a problem), I don’t think it’s some kind of sexual fetish for most trans women as most MNers think it is, but I recognise for a minority it is. I completely disagree with the gender ideology fuck wits that claim there are a hundred different genders - they erase lesbians, gender non-conforming women (and men to an extent, but most non-binary people are women), they’re homophobic, and they’re ideology is dangerous to children. I completely disagree with trans women in women’s sports, prisons, and with under 18s being given any kind of gender affirming medication or treatment. The people who piss me off the most though is the brainwashed allies who have blindly accepted this ridiculous ideology as truth without looking deeper into it or questioning it.
I express my views to family (all of who either think the whole thing is bonkers or have never given it a second thought. I don’t bring it up with friends unless I know they’re on the fence or have similar views to me, most don’t though, most of them are firmly pro gender ideology. I wouldn’t want to lose friends over a political issue that doesn’t directly affect either of us so it’s best to not discuss it (I’d never pretend I didn’t hold the views I do though)
Colleagues (and acquaintances), if they’re not friends I’ll be upfront about my views if they come up. I’m not afraid to express my opinions

I live in "repressive" Singapore and I can talk freely about my strongly-held GC views in all areas of my life. In fact I am quite evangelical about it as I don't want my society and the kids I teach to fall into this mass delusion. My closest friend from school has just discovered her son is non-binary. We are just relieved at the moment that he is not trans as such. His life is not going to be easy, he is a very closed off autistic individual and they live in a (neighbouring) conservative muslim majority country. I used to be involved in the feminist and green NGOs here but these groups are being slowly captured. Pride events here are slowly moving from being normie and family oriented to more in-your-face Queer. People here in Asia look at the events in the west with a sense of bemusement and horror. Some cannot quite grasp the internet subcultures that promote certain ideas nor the legal battles that have played out in the UK, Australia etc. I have met with my MP and send him information on certain issues, eg Gender GP which is incorporated in Singapore and he says he is grateful for the updates. The gay people here that I know are fairly GC too and actual TRA activity is fairly low level.

I am in the UK a lot, and practically all my friends there are GC. I am open with my views with my friends' kids in their teens and twenties but more circumspect in the way I deliver them. I often have more intense and open conversations with younger people than my peers and I have not encountered any hostility. We at least listen to one another.

So women have to deal with everything you’ve outlined PLUS fight against the insidious attack on our rights, OH TO BE A MAN… AND NOT GIVE A FUCK !!!

Happy to express them if asked. Doesn’t matter who’s asking.

Yes im able to be open to all all but I’m self employed with multiple clients so if someone dislikes my beliefs they would go elsewhere and I’d not suffer for it.

I work in early years however so it never comes up. If I was asked to care for a ‘trans child’ I would not treat them any differently as nothing is sex segregated in my place of work. i would never refuse care because they have a different belief to myself. I would tell the parents I’m prepared to avoid pronouns all together but I am not required to use wrong sex pronouns and neither am i required to teach other children incorrect pronouns or correct them if they use sex based pronouns for another child. I can and would refer to it as a belief and teach it as such if children ask, just as I teach any belief that is not my own, with respect and phrasing like “some people believe”. I would never allow a child to be mocked for believing they are a different sex just as I would never allow any child to be treated poorly for any difference.

none of my toys are for boys/girls. They all play with whatever we get out.. many many of them do play with ‘wrong sex’ toys I don’t correct it because I don’t enforce gender I strongly believe it’s a harmful social construct