Expressing 'gender critical' views

[ArabellaSaurus]

If you hold gender critical views-

-There are two sexes
-Sex is immutable
-Biological sex matters, and laws relating to sex should be based on sex not 'gender'

• please tell me if you feel able to express these views:

-To friends and family
-On social media
-In a professional context

I'm keen to hear whether women in particular feel that their right to freedom of belief and freedom of expression is upheld in the UK today.

Many thanks.

Family - yes they know, but I’ve recently clashed with some of my wider family who have associated GC with the events in the US and Flag flying. So that’s been depressing.

Social Media - No (see below)

Work - absolutely not, it would be career killing. Hence above.

It’s all fucking depressing. I wish I was braver but I don’t feel brave enough.

The irony as others have said is I’m a leftie who has always supported gay and lesbian rights.

Oh and friends - some but not all.

No to all of them. I'm a millennial. Some might have guessed though. When the topic of conversation comes up I'll say have you heard about such and such - i.e. particular GC court cases. Possibly convinced a few people that way! 😜

Exactly the same for me!

I mean, I'm a millennial. Still nobody believes in magic.

I do have some friends who do believe in this stuff of course. They also believe in horoscopes, auras, God, etc. People believe all kinds of mental stuff. But BROADLY few hold to this particular delusion. It's such an obvious load of old rubbish. Not even my trans friends believe that trans women are literally women.

You're just made to pretend at work, for reasons utterly beyond me. Corporate life is full of utter bollocks, especially if you're paid by Americans.

-To friends and family - yes after gently sounding them out.
-On social media - no, but I don’t post opinions except here.
-In a professional context - generally not, unless there is a related safeguarding issue that requires it.

I am friendly / professional when interacting with gender divergent individuals, of course.

Friends and family - yes mostly. My closest friends aren’t stupid and are all fairly GC themselves. I have one TIM friend who seems blinkered to reality and so I definitely don’t bring the subject up with him. He seems strangely shocked on the occasions he is correctly sexed, as if it is a genuine surprise people can’t see he is a man (he doesn’t come close to passing).

Social media - not unless anonymously. Can’t risk it. Aside from the aforementioned TIM, I have a TRA on my friends list who has tried to get a local cafe shut down because she felt they were transphobic. It didn’t work, they are doing brilliantly, but I’ve no doubt she would attempt that shit again.

Work - we do talk about it. Of my two closest colleagues, one is very much GC, the other one doesn’t talk much about it but she’s not daft and gets it. But we work in healthcare and do encounter the odd confused young person. Very sad.

Friends - yes
Family - yes
Work - yes
Social media - yes

It probably helps that I'm autistic; I've always said what I think.

Also a millennial

Family - Yes, even with my woke cousins. That caused a minor stir on the family WhatsApp, haha.
Friends - Some
Work - Mild hinting here and there (but I do give strong GC views in anonymous company surveys)
Social Media - No but I don't really use it anyway.

Oh this. One hundred percent!

1. professionally it hasn’t come up for me much and I stay far away from it, and a few times when it did, it was a passing thing or happened before we feared getting cancelled. In 2017ish a man who worked with us started wearing dresses and makeup and wanted to go by another name. A few GenX women and I talked once about how funny it was all the women on his floor now used the restrooms on the floor above and below to avoid him as we’d noticed more women in our restrooms from his floor. The millennials were silent and I had NO idea it was a fraught thing to say this out loud. We 40somethings knew all about transvestites so thought he was just one of those rarities you giggle over…little did we know what would happen in a short time. I was well known for being one of the more leftwing of my colleagues so I laugh now thinking how the young coworkers were probably so flummoxed by me talking about cross-dressing as a gross behavior and something to laugh at.
2. Friendships have been tough because my 2 closest had children come out as trans during the pandemic. It’s agonizing to be with them but I don’t say much especially as one suffers immensely as she tries to defend her son. I’ve watched her become mentally ill as a result of her son’s delusions about being a woman. I never considered how someone smart and sane could be turned so ill as she has. It’s distressing to watch but I can’t end the friendship as I love her too much. Other friends are GC and many are milder than I am, I’ve always been a loud feminist for decades so they are used to my „radical“ views.
3. My family are the best thing to come from this social contagion. We all have had varying opinions on all kinds of issues but on this we are united. And not just my immediate family but siblings, in-laws and cousins. This family bond was critical when DN claimed to be non-binary. We all knew the danger and essentially surrounded her with love and firm boundaries. DD was especially helpful cause she was the cool older cousin who was on the left but had come from being a ranting ally at 15 to a baby terf at 18. Now DN is a healthy young woman who no longer believes in the gender fairy. Surprise surprise, she came out as a lesbian at 17. I believe our tight, we-believe-gender-is-bullshit family saved her life.

My family yes, although my young adult son has spent 7 years at uni so is captured. We tend to avoid the subject in depth but I keep dropping things into conversation 😬
Have had some conversations with friends, most of whom just don’t give it much headspace.
Social media, no. I’m not that brave yet, but if someone on my friends list posted about it I’d comment.

I think most people I know are aware of my views and so far there have been no really negative consequences for me.

I got kicked out of a US based parenting group on WhatsApp for disagreeing with them about JK Rowling.

But I posted in support of the Supreme Court judgment on Facebook with no negative consequences.

I don't go round talking about it to all and sundry but if it comes up I will say what I believe. I'm usually a lot more careful how I express myself than I am on here though. I probably wouldn't say, "Trans women are men" in other contexts. I think most people aren't ready for that level of bluntness.

Oh and I am a Millennial (almost 40) but I think I have reached the "no fucks given" stage of life a little earlier than most women.

With family - yes. My sister, aunt and cousins are GC themselves. My brother had to be clued up about the whole situation and I informed him about the planned (and now passed) self identification law in Germany. It was a bit of an eye opener for him.

With friends it depends, some yes, others not so much. My close friends know how I tick and most of them feel the same way, if not, we don't bring it up.

At work it's not much of a topic. I work for an international company that is very much "flying the flag from May to September", mentioning at every occasion how inclusive they are and how great they are at being allies. My subsidary, on the other hand, doesn't do anything on those days nor is there a flag flying. We are a very male dominated industry, not even a fifth of the work force at my location are women - and most of those in office based jobs.

And unless completely anonymous, I never mention it on social media.

Family and friends - some.
Social media - no.
Work - only to colleagues I trust otherwise I'd lose my job. My employer is very pro-trans to the detriment of females. As an example, there is currently an individual working in the same building as me who is a biological male but decides each morning whether they want to be a man or woman and use whichever toilets they feel like that day. My employer has made it quite clear this individual is welcome to do so and to not allow them to do so wouldn't be inclusive. It hasn't happened yet but if I walked it into the toilets and he was in there I'd turn around and walk out.

Mostly able to discuss with family….but I think they’re bored with me now. !!!

one of my sons has a strident pro trans girlfriend and he goes quiet when I express my views. She won’t come near me…so I don’t have to deal with her illogical ideas.

My other son is gay, and him and his boyfriend are very GC. They talk often about how misogynistic and homophobic the whole TRA ideology is….i love our debates.

I only have one friend I can speak openly with….mainly because some like me run a business ( mine is quite female generic) which TRAs have tried to harm for the temerity of knowing what a woman is.

1. To family – yes, strongly, and even more strongly to my kids. It would be an abdication of responsibility otherwise.
2. To friends – yes, strongly.
3. On social media – yes, very strongly. It’s all anonymous, what would be the point in doing otherwise?
4. At work – it’s almost* never come up, but I’d be completely open about it.

But then I’m male, so it’s easy – nobody’s going to challenge me or try to make me conform. I don’t really understand why the dynamic is so different among women but it obviously is. You have my sympathy.

I should however point out that being male does also bring with it a kind of duty to keep out of it. That’s slightly down to it being sexuality-adjacent, but mostly it’s because it’s a women’s issue (as in: it’s women who go on and on about it). Part of the reason glinner looks like such a crank is that there’s no particular reason for him to care so much. Ross Tucker is absolutely uncompromising but it’s obvious why he weighs in, so that’s fine – but it’s rarely true for the rest of us, so generally we keep quiet as it’d just look bad. So I have to add the caveat that on 2 and 4 people probably have no idea what I think.

I’m genuinely sorry about that but it’s how it is. I’ll lend my weight if there’s a woman being bullied (this has only ever come up on social media) but I’d only do that reactively now – I’m of an age and class where it feels wrong and weird (glinner again) to speak up for women unsolicited, and I don’t like that but I simply can’t get over it. I’m afraid you’ll have to blame feminism for that one.

• the one time it did come up at work was when we hosted an mtf who clearly was a troubled soul, did have severe dysphoria, had had surgery and so on. Obviously it would have been bad form to make a stand in those circumstances.

You mean apart from Glinner having daughters and him not wanting them to grow up in a world where their rights are taken away?

I suppose I mean there’s no special reason for him to care? Or to put it another way, it does feel like men need an excuse to offer a view – and having daughters isn’t enough because those daughters can speak for themselves (or if anyone should speak for them on an issue like this, it should be the mum). You see the problem.

I’m male, but..

Family - mostly yes but I agree to disagree (ie not discuss it) with younger DC who’s unfortunately fairly captured.

Friends - close friends yes, on the rare occasions it comes up. Looser friends / acquaintances not so much. I wouldn’t be afraid to, but I see it as loosely falling into politics / religion and I wouldn’t bring either category up at a dinner table or a casual chat.

SM - (other than on here) no.

Work - I’m aware of how captured some of my colleagues and the general workplace (US company) is, so no.

I’ve contributed as often as I can to various calls for funding. I bought the album of the Irish lady who got into trouble for WrongThink and it’s sat, unplayed, since (not my taste) and I’ve bought various books by GC aligned authors or by people, like Milli Hill, who got dragged in accidentally, to show support.

Good Christ.

Re males weighing in - yes, there are complexities.

But it is evidently possible for men to discuss the subject without taking over, and while understanding women are human beings. There are quite a lot of men with 'gc' views who manage to do so perfectly well, in fact, numbers seem to be increasing.

As with all subjects, one can be a reasonable person about it, or otherwise.

The Supreme Court judgment was massive, IMO.

It makes it so much easier to say you believe women should have single sex spaces when the most senior judges in the country say, "Yes, that is what the last Labour government clearly intended when passing its landmark equality legislation."

Not that that stops some idiots people trying to spin it as evidence of far right forces interfering in British democracy.

Friends and family - hasn't ever been a relevant conversation

Social media - i post about my coffess and brunches and things.

Professional context - hasn't ever come up at work as I don't knowingly work with any trans people and not have I looked after a trans maternity user. There are guidelines for us if we do but personally never needed them. Lots of same sex couples and I've looked after a surrogate but nobody trans.

This is just not a big part of my life and I think there are far bigger social issues to tackle. I find it weird how obsessed people are on here to the point they imagine women in the news are really men. Women with huge boobs and pics of themselves as a child but they still imagine that this terrible person just must be a man and could never be a saintly woman. Really odd behaviour here.

What I’m never quite sure women appreciate is that there’s no real way for men to argue back (to women) when the subject gets emotive. Which I’m afraid happens instantly on this subject.

You hold 'gc' views, but find discussion of those views odd?