Flipping Furries

[PauliesWalnuts]

Went out for the day with a mate to Haworth, and decided we'd do the steam train route to get there. Headed down to the platform at the local station after we'd bought our rover ticket only to be greeted by about twenty furries. The vast majority were in full fur, with a few just in tails and masks.

JFC what a load of selfish morons. They annoyed the entire train, freaked out kids and dogs, ruined other people's photos, and at Oxenhope when the train stops for about 20 mins for photos, snacks etc, they monopolised the cab, in and out, taking photos, and nobody else had a chance. Health and safety was an issue due to these idiots slowly trying to climb in and out of the engine unit in full costume (and struggling to do so). What struck me was how entitled they all acted - very flamboyant, not leaving people alone, striking poses everywhere, very much wanting to be the centre of attention. A few pride and trans flags tied round people's necks, big old blokes with tails poking out their jeans, a lot of them being very touchy-feely, trying to explain themselves and their ethos to other users who weren't really interested - made everyone else feel pretty uncomfortable. I thought they just did this stuff at conventions and comic-cons and stuff?

Not normal

Or neutered and some worming tablets and chum for dinner.

Good grief, I never see this sort of thing in north Germany.

Accusations: they were being evil sexual fetishists
Evidence: none (they touched sometimes)
Terfs of Mumsnet: fuming
Dogs: scared
Solution: bring back bullying and ban furries

I'm not a fan of furries but this post is plainly curtain-twitching old-man-yells-at-sky nonsense, as the kids would say "touch grass".

- but also - this demographic think they’re so radical and progressive and yet the furry costumes always seem to be hideous cheap synthetic monstrosities probably made in exploitative sweatshops. Why aren’t they lovingly handcrafted from home-dyed natural fabrics? Why do the want to resemble anime or cartoon animals in fake colours? To be fair I’m basing this on other pics I’ve seen and not OP’s experience but it’s what always strikes me.

I can't claim to even begin to understand someone's motivations for dressing like this in public - I can't relate to it in any way - but let's be honest, in no way is it akin to someone openly masturbating in public.

Assuming it is a fetish, consent isn't an applicable concept when it comes to what other people are wearing in public. I don't need anyone's consent to dress how I like and neither do you, no-one does! It's not even illegal to walk around naked (if you're that way inclined) so a fox costume certainly isn't out of bounds.

Consent also doesn't apply to what other people are thinking in public so even if they do find it a huge turn on, then as long as they keep that to themselves they're not doing anything wrong I don't think.

If they were following people around showing off their erections and trying to whisper obscene things in people's ears, I'd be totally with you. If they were shagging in the train toilet (assuming they could fit in there with the costumes), ditto.

Dressing up on a train though? Weird, but each to their own.

Being rude and hogging the photo opps? Don't think that's related to the costumes, they're just berks.

Politely, you don't know enough about furries. Let me give you some details:

The fandom has a substantial sexual wing. This is not a moral judgement, just a fact. Survey data of thousands of furries finds a large minority describing sexual attraction as important to their furry activities, with many others acknowledging at least some sexual interest. That is why the scene has its own vocabulary for porn and why so many events have to manage adult content. 

Because organisers know this, big cons put in strict controls to keep adult material away from minors. That is unusual outside spaces where sexual content is expected, and it is telling. For example, Midwest FurFest explicitly instructs dealers to keep adult materials out of sight and reach of anyone under 18, with clear marking of minor badges. You do not need rules like that for a hobby that is purely “cute dress up”.

There have been serious incidents. RainFurrest 2016 was cancelled after the host hotel pulled out, citing years of damage and 2015 reports that included police visits, vandalism and arrests for assault and sexual assault. That is not “someone being a berk in a costume”, it is a pattern of problems that made a major venue walk away.

Another convention in Denver was also cancelled amid controversies that included allegations around organisers and attendees, which underlines that the scene can attract the sort of issues that make venues and cities nervous. 

Public versus private matters. You are right that UK law does not criminalise mere nudity by itself, but it very clearly draws a line at behaviour that causes harassment, alarm or distress, or crosses into indecency. The test in family spaces is not “is it technically illegal”, it is “is it appropriate to impose a sexualised subculture on a captive audience, including children”.

With fursuiting, outsiders cannot tell who is in the non-sexual minority and who is using the costume as part of a sexual persona. Full masking and anonymity are known features for many who do sexual role-play in these costumes. If you would not wear BDSM gear on a commuter train because others have not consented to being part of your scene, the same courtesy should apply here. The combination of anonymity, animal play aesthetics and a documented sexual subculture is exactly why people object in public, child-heavy settings.

No one is saying adults cannot do what they like in private venues, 18-plus hotel floors, or properly stewarded events. But pretending this is just “harmless fancy dress” in front of kids and in public ignores the reality that a significant slice of the fandom is sexual, that cons treat it as such with adult-content controls, and that there have been enough serious incidents to justify caution. Keep it to age-gated spaces and away from captive audiences on trains and in family areas. That is a reasonable boundary..

I sound like a stuck record but just like no males in female spaces, no masked fetishisits in public :)

On the one hand haha furries how silly haha. On the other hand there are genuinely plenty of zoophiles in these groups.

I grew up without having to know what zoophilia was - wouldn't that be nice for children now too.

Ask that to the Comicon fans, the reenactors, the steampunkers, the Pearly Kings and Queens, the LARPers, the Renaissance Faire goers, Am Dram panto actors, Morris Dancers, Rockabilly Dance enthusiasts, the Zombie/Santa run, runners.... people have dressed up as part of or as the whole of their hobby for yonks.

The problem isn't even that these guys are often fetishists, because the fetish isn't an essential part of the hobby and they aren't indecent in public. Unlike somebody dressed in bondage gear a child seeing these would just think they were just a person dressed up as a giant cartoon dog or whatever. The problem is the antisocial behaviour.

I thought when they had a furries storyline on 'Doctors' it was peak mental but this takes the Bonio.
My dogs would have gone mental on that train, they wouldn't have been able to compute.
Come to that neither can I.
Thanks for the laugh!

Do you mean that a significant minority self-describe as sexualising it in some way, or that a minority of them do not sexualise it in any way? Because the two are mutually exclusive and you've stated both.

Much though I think it's misguided and I don't like it, "being a furry" is growing in popularity with tweenage and teenage kids. The cons acknowledge and welcome children with the controls that you mention - which I think supports the idea that being a furry does not automatically equate to being a fetishist. Whilst it is a hobby adopted by fetishists, I'm not sure I believe that the majority of furries are fetishists, or that there is anything inherently sexual about dressing up as a furry.

"The test in family spaces is not “is it technically illegal”, it is “is it appropriate to impose a sexualised subculture on a captive audience, including children”."

I think lots of subcultures have sexualised elements. Tango dancing does - do you think people shouldn't wear elegant Tango dresses and dance a partner dance in public? Some people quite fancy a man in uniform, so i'm sure the World War 2 reenactors do alright for fangirls, should they not be out in public in their woolen uniforms either?

Don't get me wrong, I sound like I'm defending them and I'm definitely not a fan, I find the whole thing weird and creepy - but I don't think that silly men in silly animal costumes are doing anything that is harmful to our children by being on a train.

When I go to Pride the people who I'd say think they are radical and SoOoOoo progressive and out there, are draped in polyester flags made in a sweatshop and glitter that certainly isn't biodegradable. I don't think "radical and progressive" automatically equates to giving a damn about sweatshops, petrochemicals, microplastics or sustainability. As a Pagan I know quite a few organic cotton wearing weave your own fairtrade museli types, and I'm pretty sure none of them identify as radical and progressive (or would be seen dead in a furry suit!).

Small point of order: the fabrics those costumes are made from - yes, I'd say almost certainly made in sweatshops, just like unfortunately the Next and M&S polycotton that fills my wardrobe and probably yours too. But the costumes themselves are a matter of HUGE pride and IMO ridiculous expense, being almost always handmade in the UK or US to order and "unique" to the individual's idea of what they want. You can probably find them off the rack on Temu, but being unique is a huge massive deal in that world.

Furries - in HAWORTH??

Papa Bronte would not approve.

I bet Branwell would have been a furry. Emily would have pulled his tail.

I'd always assumed furries dressed up in private, or in specialist clubs.
I'm not sure I'd be able to contain my mirth if I saw people bumbling around dressed as furry mammals in public. How weird they must be to do this 😂😂😂

Some of those things are also kid of dodgy. It's not the impulse so much to dress up, or even occasional fancy dress at a ball.

Even for reenactors, most are very interested in the historical elements and the hobby is a way of accessing that.

Furries though, and a lot of people at comiccons, seem to see it as something differernt, kind of a "true identity" thing. And I'd just point out that comicons have had some of the same issues with inappropriate activities and attracting weirdos who use it as a way to access sex or even minors. The head of our local comicon was arrested for activities with minors a few years ago.

I think furries are primarily sexual, and the non-sexual parts are actually the spin off element. The kids will be groomed into the sexual side ultimately.

To be fair we've all seen this kind of entitlement from men in conventional attire. The furry part is just another layer of ick due to its associations with other fetishes.

I don’t really care whether the euphoria boner is hidden in expensive hand made fake fur or under a Shein spinny skirt, if it’s in public, it’s a transgression of boundaries.

And I certainly don’t think euphoria boners are common when putting on tango outfits. But if anyone’s heritage train journey has been disrupted by a tango troupe I’ll be interested to find out more.

I am not familiar with the phenomenon of euphoria boners and had to google.

Stop the world. I officially want to get off.

oh no! Never google that!!!

Sorry...

My only furry experience, and I didn’t realise it was a thing at the time.
Went to a show in London. Dd and her friend went to the ladies. I didn’t but saw an ‘animal’ go in. Asked the girls after if the saw. Friend said yes, but it wasn’t a ‘female’ furry either. Felt all sorts of wrong but could we say anything. No.

Where does it say that the men on this train had erections?

I'm curious which of the others you think are dodgy? Specifically from a sexual behaviour point of view?

I could agree with you on some comicon outfits and comicon fans, and there's a reason I thought about but didn't include drag in my list. Agree with you about the identity thing.