Reddit is an alternate universe on gender ideology

[SquirrelosaurusSoShiny]

I know that this is no news to MNers. Occasionally even I boggle at how absolutely removed from planet earth posters are.

One example - a thread about Graham Linehan being interviewed by BBC. Absolute outrage at how transphobic BBC are for allowing him to be interviewed and how outrageous it is that as he was 'cancelled' he should never be uncancelled or appear in public again.

The idea that the BBC / police / Labour Party / whoever are transphobic just shows how utterly delusional these individuals are. A man was arrested by 5 police officers for a tweet. Anything other than complete affirmation and self-prostration is transphobia.

Many are mentally ill, not because of gender dysphoria but because they exist primarily in online spaces which validate their every word. Every word of disagreement brings expulsion from the bubble or cries of transphobia. Then every encounter with reality is seen as a painful attack so they continue to exist only online in an endless circle jerk of validation.

Until all online spaces are legally obliged to allow a variety of viewpoints this isn't going to change. I'm so proud that MN held the line. The idea that it's an echo chamber here just makes me laugh. Not blindly swallowing horseshit by plop and run TRAs is not transphobia.

I cannot believe how many people have been harmed by this ideology. We haven't even seen the full consequences yet of people losing faith in our media, our political system, common sense. Don't even get me started on the Arts. It's like watching a horror film on 0.5 speed. It is genuinely depressing.

The people I'm most concerned for right now are LGB people because the social attitudes against LGB are going backwards because of TRAs. That is why I have always believed that far from GCs being funded by the far right, it was gender ideology itself with the single aim of bringing about a conservative backlash. And they have zero concern about exploiting autistic teenagers and adults in online spaces as their foot soldiers.

I don't think being "legally obliged to allow a variety of viewpoints" would be as beneficial as you think. People will still stay in online bubbles whether it's by using block lists and follow lists, comment up- and down-voting, or algorithm-driven engagement maximisation.

I know and you are probably right. But I honestly don't know how we reach these people?

It's like anorexics seeking out pro-ANA sites. They might search for them but the wider web and social media sites also have other viewpoints and resources to challenge them. (A poor example I know because anorexia is so enduring and intractable- ironically because autism may be underlying in some cases, as in gender dysphoria). By blocking any and all viewpoints other than 'TWAW' people can simply exist in the echo chamber forever. I get what you're saying but they would at least sometimes stumble upon other viewpoints before blocking them, especially detransitioners.

I just don't know how we reach people so completely removed from reality.

I read Trans UK Reddit just like I read newspapers I disagree with; it’s important to real all around an argument to see others’ perspectives, even when you profoundly disagree with them. I agree with the “alternate universe” comment. However, like alcoholism, people “on the other side” can’t be helped until they want to be.

I also have a lot of sympathy for some of the very damaged individuals who post there. Some of their issues are awful, even if I don’t agree with how they choose to manage them (and it’s their choice, not mine).

The way reddit removed all GC viewpoint almost overnight was bonkers, and it appears that some TRA are subs just to police GC adjacent views.

I dont know its its unique to TRA, or just how some topics are beyond debate with the core users, and other issues are dealt with in the same way. I dont think reddit is a liberal debate space, though. I think the users generally arent open to different views, more want to win arguments by grinding their 'opponent' down. Having the last word wins.

I don't think you can reach people who remove themselves from reality. They have to want to return. And usually because reality comes looking for them but even that might not be enough.

I go to reddit to read what's being said as often as I come here. It's interesting to notice differences and similarities. There are rhetorical devices that some posters use in both spaces (e.g. ad hominem attacks, guilt by association, straw man, purity spiral style statements, calling out) so I find it helpful to try and filter those out. Also self-righteous, rsoh, outrage pushing and fear-mongering posts, cherry picking research etc.

Of course there are differences. There are more dissenting voices here and also trolls and ploppers. There are more people who seem mentally unwell there. I feel like there is more reality testing here and more posters here who seem to express curiousity and a genuine desire to find a way to build a society for everyone to live in.

Yes I agree. But by removing anything GC from Reddit it allows people to live removed from reality indefinitely and then of course reality feels so uncomfortable they scurry back to the warmth of the nest, where their sense of persecution and fear can be amplified.

I was telling a (much younger) friend about buying the latest 'Robert Galbraith', and they told me the most horrifying tale, of how she is offering to bankroll an evil barrister, who has waged a prolonged hate campaign against a young transwoman, driving her to attempt suicide.

That's the Reddit/Tumblr narrative, and it's weirdly impenetrable to logic. I was tempted to send them a few choice screenshots of SM's toilet-based selfies (complete with prominent erection and slogans mocking women's rights), but, do you know what, they're so far down the rabbit hole, I think they might just block me for transphobia.

It's a collective madness.

The thing I find scary about Reddit is how quick they are to label people as fascist, people who therefore are fair game to be murdered because, according to them, one less fascist/nazi is a good thing. It's really disturbing.

But you can't argue with them or make them see reason because they see people who have a different viewpoint to them as wanting to erase their existence, and they say their existence is not up for debate. But the erasure of women as a sex class with the associated protections in law is absolutely fine.

It also makes the TAs less effective. When the TAs were advancing they did it by hiding the agenda understanding the potential opposition and manoeuvring to sideline it. However to do that you have to be somewhat reasonable and be able to understand political reality.

With increasing success arrogance meant creating echo chambers was attractive. So that changed the nature of the TAs themselves. More moderate voices were sidelined. The key figure in UK trans rights are loudmouth people like Maugham or Willoughby. Delusion spreads. They lose more and more support.

Getting rid of gender critical voices on reddit happened in 2020 just at the point gender crits were gathering and advancing. Posting on reddit required holding your tongue. Getting kicked out just unleashed more women's anger it didn't stop anything.

Also remember Reddit never actually got rid of "transphobia" it banished discussions where women were heavily involved. There are still right wing and religious subs where you can say men in dresses are not women not to mention the porn sections.

This is oddly cheering!

Unfortunately so much ideology became public policy in the quiet infiltration stage that it will take many years to push back - unless of course we deliver the country to genuine far-right leaders, by which time we'll be in real trouble.

Algorithms have a lot to answer for.

I'm feeling uncheery. The world is run, not by Redditors, but by institutions which are riddled from top to bottom with genderism, and are unmoved by court rulings or actual evidence of harm.

I like to think that VMcM's attempt to get EA2010 declared incompatible with Art 8 will fail, given that, unlike during the original Goodwin hearing, proponents of women's and gay rights will, hopefully get heard. But then I remember that the UN, Council of Europe and ECtHR are all captured, and I'm not so sure.

It makes it, if anything, more nightmarish to reflect that survey evidence shows at least 80% of British people are gender unbelievers. Genuinely Orwellian.

The Daily Mail comments - which I always think are a fair barometer of the right of centre masses - were overwhelmingly supportive of Graham Lineham and dismissive of trans ideology. Most people know it’s a load of old bollocks and will be horrified at the idea that armed police could arrest you for thinking it.

I also read the Transgender-UK Reddit community group. It usually makes me both angry and very sad.

It is a tightly-managed bubble. Any dissenting posts are down-voted and the content is quickly hidden from view. The moderators will, once a 'terfy' post is spotted/reported, ban the original poster and delete the post completely.

Nearly all the posters are struggling to find their place in the world. Most reference autism, dyslexia, disabilities, depression, family estrangement, homelessness, unemployment, inability to find a romantic partner or struggle with work conflicts (toilets! pronouns!) or with 'disloyal' friends. Nearly every poster is struggling financially.

However, they see transitioning as an escape from their current unhappiness. They will be a wholly new and improved person with a different body, sex and name. They will be euphoric! If they are not happy as yet, this is a sign that they must do more to transition fully; such as increase the hormone dosage, commit to further surgery or go non-contact with their family.

The sunk costs are enormous. A trans man who takes testosterone, has permanently lowered her voice and increased her facial hair. If she is genetically prone, she may have also developed male pattern baldness. Stopping testosterone will not reverse these effects.

As previous posters have said, banning all dissenting voices, even those of more moderate trans people, has made the trans community unable to engage with an increasingly sceptical public. They can't answer the difficult questions, because in their online world these can never be asked.

It is heartbreaking how many vulnerable young people will be left damaged physically and mentally by trans rights activism.

This isn’t Reddit but I was cheered by a Facebook post recently. It was an online magazine which say it’s about art and design etc (it just appeared in my feed). Anyway there was a post about a TW author and amongst other quotes he was complaining about rich cis white girl authors. A lot of top voted comments (1 of 200 likes) were complaining about the misogyny and others were pointing out how this was a man and how transitioning to a woman hadn’t made him like women. Some women were correcting pronouns but others were posting about AGP and sissy porn. None of this magazine’s other posts had prompted more than a handful of likes or comments. I thought it was very interesting given that often women are enforcers of this ideology to see so many women happy to comment and none were the usual fawning sycophancy.

That’s because they permanently banned anyone who disagrees with it, and those banned posters can never post on Reddit again as their IP addresses are blocked.

So there are vanishingly few people offering the alternative view.

I think the saddest post I saw on the trans uk Reddit was a young boy, just 16, who “wanted to become a woman”. He was already on DIY hormones bought illegally. His mother did not agree with his decision, but said she would always love and support him regardless. Every single answer was that she was transphobic, his GP was transphobic for not prescribing, he should leave home the moment he finished school and should never see or speak to his mother again. Heartbreaking and so so damaging.

Reddit is insane. I was banned from a feminist sub for failing to clarify immediately what I meant by 'female' on a thread talking about gendered violence.

When I was coming to terms with my bisexuality 'later' in life, the subs were absolutely horrendous and reinforced that there's no place for me in the 'LGBT' community. The common view that bisexual people are attracted to 'multiple genders' and therefore it doesn't matter what sex someone is was just repackaged biphobia.

In short, Reddit is a misogynistic, homophobic shithole 🙃

It really is. It’s so mad most people think you are lying. It’s hard to comprehend just how unhinged these people are.

There are so many children on there.

They probably say the same things about us🙄
The big difference between Reddit/gender and this board is that we do not exist in the same post-factual fog as them, where the mere statement of a verifiable scientific fact is 'literal hatred'.
Posters here tend to include sources and references when making a serious argument, references to reputable sources. Redditeers don't have that discipline. Anything that backs up their opinions is good enough for them, even if it has zero foundation in fact.

It's a religion. Belief in the unbelievable is the whole point.

Misogyny runs through Reddit like a stick of rock and always has.

When my (very attractive) dd22 moans about inadequate men she always jokes about ‘saddo Reddit incels’ - so even younger people know it’s become a cesspit of a certain type of individual with a certain worldview.