Stats on violent assault - trans people

[ItsCoolForCats]

I frequently see stats bandied about and claims made on social media that trans people are much more likely to be the victim of violent assault than 'cis' people. For example, here is Helen Webberley claiming that "...trans people are 4 x more likely to be victim of violent assault than cisgender people, just because of their identity". https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1natr6o/graham_linehan_arrest_setting_piers_morgan/

Does anyone know where they are getting these stats from, as I rarely see a source referenced.

That is terrible. I am sorry it happened to you. Did you report to the police?

We cannot have our children (you being under 18 ) being attacked randomly and I hope the police found the people responsible. And I hope you get some mental health support too.

I agree, if anyone - including teens - is assaulted by strangers, the police need to know.

I wonder if the stats include female people without a gender identity?

Both incidents reported, no news on either investigation, and I'm 23, not under 18...
Thank you for the support ^^
Edit: and yes I just finished therapy thank you.

So not a girl. Glad you got them reported and got support.

Men in their 20s have always been the highest risk category for attacks by strangers. It’d be interesting to know if there has been a rise on attacks of women who identify as trans, especially in somewhere like Brighton.

It doesn’t matter what age you are the only way to be a girl is to be born female.

Indeed. Language is important to be accurate. In this case it is male on male violence. At least it is not teenagers or children being hurt.

I would also hope that the statistics are accurately recorded as being male on male violence. That way the issue can be targeted and addressed properly.

This is such a useful link, thank you IwantToRetire. It shows the value of doing what we so often call for on this board: sticking to verifiable facts.

The old chestnut about lies, damned lies and statistics is very relevant here: it's so easy to suggest a dramatic rise in something if it is rare. So if one person is injured by a falling traffic light this year, and two are injured by falling traffic lights next year, the headlines could be:

100% RISE IN INJURIES DUE TO FALLING TRAFFIC LIGHTS!
TRAFFIC LIGHT RELATED INCIDENTS DOUBLE IN JUST ONE YEAR!
WHY ISN'T THE GOVERNMENT TACKLING THIS EPIDEMIC etc etc.

or as the C4 factcheck put it:
we don’t yet have a robust estimate of the total trans population of the UK, and the number of recorded trans murder victims is so small that it would only take one or two more cases every year for the “trans murder rate” to double or triple.

Every attack or injury or murder, whatever the motive, is a tragedy - I'm very sorry you had those awful experiences, Maeven.
But using rare individual tragedies to build up a false picture of widespread targeted anti-trans violence is irresponsible. It's obviously also a deliberate tactic by TRAs to support their false claims of 'literal genocide' and being 'the most marginalised group in society', and to keep the trans community in a heightened, and unfortunately volatile, state of fear and martyrdom.

we don’t yet have a robust estimate of the total trans population of the UK,

I agree, and I think it's actually going to be impossible to work out who is/isn't trans if the definition continues to be so vague.

As has been discussed on here, if people who don't consider themselves to have a gender, or don't know whether/don't believe their gender identity or lack of it 'aligns with' their sex, are included as trans then I think the calculated rate of male violence against them would rocket, because we are talking about a lot of women.

If it's more 'a person who strongly wishes to be the opposite sex' then perhaps that could be made clear?

A man in his 20s calling himself a girl 🤔

I know. Immediate ick.

What’s this ad!!? I rarely notice ads, but I have this running alongside this thread.

If it's more 'a person who strongly wishes to be the opposite sex' then perhaps that could be made clear?

What about it men who get aroused by the thought of themselves as women/girls?

I'm not backing up anyone's statistics I'm just saying from my lived experience perspective I'm getting hurt a lot more as of late. I'm also specifying here for everyone reminding me I'm "male", yes I'm aware, I am a "trans-female" I never claimed to have the chromosomes etc necessary to meet your definitions of a "woman", nor do I expect you to call me she/her etc, but if you would like to be respectful towards me I would still appreciate it, Thank you ^^.

@Maevenits not personal to you. We just believe differently and think gender identity ideology is harmful to women and girls, and it’s important to many women here to be clear about it. Women will speak how they feel is appropriate. I’m sorry you were assaulted, you didn’t deserve it.

In the UK , statistically, there are more transwomen murderers than transwomen murder victims.

And transwomen (trans identified men) commit sexual crime at the same rate as men (obvious, really). 95% of sexual crimes are committed by men (of any identification) and 85% of victims are women and girls.

At least, these were the approximate figures last time I consulted the ONS website.

Men who identify as trans commit sexual offences at a rate FIVE TIMES that of other men, not at the same rate.

I think it’s fair to note that that is just the number of convicted criminals, so it has limitations, but is useful to demonstrate the issue when compared to other men. There could be other reasons technically but the obvious one is obvious.

gosh! I didn’t realise it was that bad. Thanks for the correction.

Zero posters have been disrespectful to you.

These are the Uk prison stats

It is useful also for anyone who wants to know what should be considered for evaluating risk of this sub group of males to show that they have a risk level not less than any other male in the UK of committing sex crime, have a read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK

Firstly, This was a question answered earlier this year:
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.
Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024

Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ
Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other

77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.
As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population.

And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16

27 other
The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.

This is why NO SUB GROUP OF MALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM RISK ASSESSMENT. This group of male people still retain the same male pattern of committing sex and violent crime.

How is it respectful to call a male
person a ‘girl’?

Only someone who demands that their concept of reality is the universal material reality that apparently everyone should act as if they believe, would tell women that they must respect that words that describe female people uniquely. It is only male people who tell female people that they must accept the use of their language to describe themselves as a male person.

There's no such thing as "trans female".

There's just male and female and you are male.

You are being really disrespectful towards female people when you call yourself female/girl/woman.

Has this been shared on here yet?

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

“Only someone who demands that their concept of reality is the universal material reality that apparently everyone should act as if they believe, would tell women that they must respect that words that describe female people uniquely.”

Should be

Only someone who demands that their concept of reality is the universal material reality that apparently everyone should act as if they believe, would tell women that they must respect that words that describe female people uniquely when they are used for male people.