NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #53

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025

That's why I downloaded for a spare evening. I'm afraid if I start casually skimming through now, I will next become aware of my surroundings at around 1.30 am tomorrow!

I assumed it was the pressure, and the scrutiny and the danger of putting a foot wrong in the full glare of the public and media spotlight.

I had to stop reading - life got in the way.

Linehan submission of No Case fails, so trial will proceed

It’s being live tweeted by Nick Wallis, and the brilliant @SabrinaThwaite copied it into the Glinner has been arrested thread 2 yesterday and today. I am pasting Nick’s tweets this afternoon on Glinner Thread 3.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404988-graham-linehan-arrested-on-arrival-at-heathrow-part-3?page=1

Gaagh. I've started following the Glinner threads as a kind of methadone, to help me deal with withdrawal from the Peggie hearings.

Apologies if anyone has already posted this from the EHRC https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/sep/05/equalities-watchdog-response-uk-supreme-court-transgender-ruling

Here's a little bit to whet your appetite. "Falkner, a crossbench peer, said of the advice, which has a statutory basis: “Everybody I speak to, every institution I speak to, says: ‘Can you tell us what we’re supposed to do?’ That’s wrong … they should have been doing it anyway.”"

Meanwhile...we can all breathe a sigh of relief at this news
https://news.stv.tv/west-central/strike-action-at-tunnocks-teacake-factory-avoided-as-workers-accept-new-pay-deal

Maybe I should stockpile anyway.

Just in case.

When Steve Bannon asked me how we wanted the far right money, I told him we'd only accept payment in Tunnock's.

Very wise.

I have finished reading the notes and I conclude that NC writes a powerful convincing case with masterly use of ‘surprising’ and ‘invite the tribunal’.

Somebody please correct me if I am mistaken: should the Tribunal find that DrU concocted the patient safety concerns, that ends his career because it is a malicious accusation designed to end SP’s. Should the Tribunal find that the patient safety concerns might have some basis in fact (tho I cannot see that any evidence of them has been produced) he must be in trouble for not reporting them at the time they arose.

Is there something I have missed here? It seems staggering that anybody would shoot their career down like this.

The tribunal won't say anything as definite as that he "concocted" safety concerns. The judgement may say they don't believe the concerns were genuine, but that's not the same thing.

If the GMC is going to strike off a doctor it would be after its own investigation and fitness to practice hearing, which would hear its own evidence.

Very sorry: a fitness to practice hearing is held by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, with the GMC on one side and the doctor on the other. The doctor can appeal to the High Court.

https://www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/hearing-types/how-a-hearing-works-for-doctors/medical-practitioners-tribunals

Thank you.

So there would have to be a separate complaint about DrU and then an investigation and a tribunal to decide his fitness to practice; it is not automatic.

If DU is criticized in the judgment, he arguably has a duty to report himself to the GMC as described in paragraph 9 here:

https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/the-professional-standards/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk

In relation to tribunals in the public domain, you must tell us if you know or ought to know that you have been the subject of judicial criticism (for example in civil or criminal proceedings) relating to serious matters that could call your fitness to practise into question.

Again, assuming he comes in for some criticism in the judgment, he will need to take advice:
If you are not sure whether or not to tell us about any of the matters set out in paragraph 4 or 5, you should ask for advice from a defence body or medical association or from us.

I'm sure that if the judgment finds that the allegations of patient safety against SP were not properly founded - or were founded but delayed - either of those would meet the test of a "serious matter[] that could call your fitness to practice into question.

So it sounds like the GMC might be involved either way.

Sad times.

EDIT: that applies to Kate Searle, if she's criticized, too, I suppose. Sad, sad times.

I’m still three threads behind and only just learned about season 2

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5324520/nhs-fife-sandie-peggie-second-legal/

4.4% an hour? Wow, that's generous. After a few hours, Tunnocks will go bankrupt, won't they?

The tribunal is looking at Upton's conduct only as it affects Peggie's claim, not its effect on patients or employability. If the tribunal findings indicate concern on those fronts, that would need to be dealt with separately by his professional body and/or employer.

Quite soon. Mathematical literacy is not Mr. Loudon's specialty, obviously.

Which is exactly what I did, hence me only now just going to bed at 1:45am! 😭

Nothing is going to happen to DrU’s medical career. He will carry on without repercussions and will be given a nice cr to use. Possibly create a female drs one as they would not complain.

Unless, of course, NHS Fife need a convenient scapegoat, along the lines of we had other trans employees and there wasn't any trouble until Dr Upton came along. We trusted him and did all we could to help him to settle in, and he was very convincing so he led us astray. Now we're horrified and we're throwing him under the bus (or words to that effect.)

To quote Daffy duck from one of my favourite bugs bunny episodes. "But any way you look at it, it's better he should suffer. After all, it was me or him, and, obviously, it couldn't be me. It's a simple matter of logic. I'm not like other people. I can't stand pain. It hurts me." (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054593/quotes/?item=qt0322615 )

And yes, it's true to say that I've never met a tone I didn't want to lower on principle.

In a funny way, it’s a pity Dr Upton was named as a respondent in this tribunal. I think he could be skewered better if this tribunal was just NHS Fife and he was added with the three mean girls for the upcoming tribunal. A lot of info came to light during this tribunal after he gave evidence and it would be most interesting to see him defend himself in the upcoming tribunal.

edited to add- although it was fascinating to watch JR try and ride the two horses.

Is that the "I will hug him and squeeze him and call him George" one?