NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #51

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 50: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 7 August 2025 to 1 September 2025

Well, if JR’s amendment is significant and the judge rules in (her) favour, there are grounds for appeal on the basis of last minute submission?

I think the 15 minutes in question was the difference between JR's planned one hour, and the 45 minutes that NC proposed she should be cut back to in order to make space for her amendment consideration.

A family members' male friend is called Mary. Well, I thought it was, anyway... Turns out he's called Mark, but someone wrote the "k" a bit wonky once at school, so he's been Mary for about 20 years.....

Genuine question - does JR really talk like this all the time? Or is it her special court voice? It’s just unbearable

JR is speaking in soft slow voice just to piss NC off, IMO. She wants extra time to change the pleading, and doesn't want NC to have time to respond verbally. Can't wait for the inevitable bunfight when we find out which respondent is making last minute bid for conscious uncoupling from the drama. Presumably Fife, as this softly spoken nonsense seems to be an attempt to soothe Theo.

From TT

word

J - thats not how we do things

<interruption as audio is reported as poor>

J - returns, Apparently I can be heard by the two of you (advocates) cannot please move the microphones

JR - the A8 authorities recognise the steps the TP goes through to fulfill their GI.

I do not say that Goodwin says a TP can live fully as the opposite gender at any stage of transition. The Board is a state body that is responsible for the space in question a locker room. There is a conflict of rights, but it is not an ad hoc question between people who know each other.

The EHRC has been entrusted with the creation of the CoP, it also has a statutory basis, it was laid before Parliament. The ECHR will give due deference to a democratically decided measure. The CoP is such a measure. The CoP gives guidance on treatment of TP.

JR can't accept the absolutism on the transwomen are men position

I know my brother and my gay best friend, but I wouldn’t undress in front of them, and they are nice guys.

No that's a really good point, and I do agree!

I was just meaning more in general every day life sort of situations, I find it mean spirited. And pointing out that white on me would be a terrible idea because of the clumsiness 😂

She’s actually preaching a sermon, isn’t she

ETA - ahhh….the white suit! It all makes sense now. Is there a choir waiting somewhere round the corner? They'll start crooning softly any time now.

10.22 and I'm shouting at the computer already.

My screen has a box at the bottom that says IVL-Dundee-TR-TR4. I assume the last bit means Tribunal Room 4.

From TT

In respect of the PC of GR. Based on what NC said, her logic is that the current CoP renders the GRA a dead letter and FWS wrongly decided. A surprising assertion that the EHRC is in conflict with the EA and the Supreme Court. the CoP recognises the balancing act.

There is a balance to be struck, but the C's position is absolutist, that TW are men and can never have access to women's SSS. It is that position that is incompatible with A8 and unsupported by authorities. The factors that go in to balancing rights:

changes depending who she is addressing. Bizarrely choosing to talk to the judge like one would to a five year old.

Yeah yesterday's redacting of the name Theodore and this have made my heart sink a bit.

As an astute poster said yesterday (apols can't remember who) JR apears to be a fan of the 'Get yer tits out for the boys' version of 'equality and human rights ' for women.

JR is now saying that SP is not allowed to be angry at the repeated presence of a man in the women's changing room she uses.

From TT

C's practice was to change in a cubicle, there were other facilities available, no one else complained and DU was 2 years into transition. On the Lux authority, it has treated TW as their acq'd gender in accordance with TL's submission. On Higgs, C's confrontation with DU on

It was possibly the judge disposing of a potential appeal point where the issue in question removing Upton's previous name, didn't really have an impact on the case.

From TT

Xmas eve was driven by anger not by fear. She said she was not afraid of DU.

<JR now reading out DU's evidence on SP anger>.

Volume is not the only indicator of objectionable conduct. And of all the comments, the prison's comment was the worst, the most objectionable.

As to appeal, I've heard (Michael Foran's opinion) that it will almost certainly go to appeal. NHS Fife probably won't do it but Sandie and Upton will, the latter likely funded by GLP.

from herald
10:23am
Ms Russell, in her argument, says it cannot be right in the absolutism that transwomen are men and can never have access to spaces that align with their gender identity.
That was an argument set out yesterday by Naomi Cunningham.
She says there was more than one trans person in the hospital - yet no one else complained, and Dr Upton was two years into her trans journey.

This is extraordinary. Yes, it jolly well can be the case!

@Boiledbeetle My joining email granting access in July had my tribunal room in the header. If yours doesn't you could send a reply to that email and ask. They responded quite quickly yesterday when I emailed about bening locked out at lunchtime.

Theodore was trending yesterday on X, so they say.