Flakiness/Not contributing to work gifts

[Truthfully555]

Well I am getting sick of flakers. At my work theres a mix of men and women, probably a little more men 6:4-7:3. Anyway, I'm getting rather a negative impression of female colleagues and it's making me think this a female trait. I've been in a group of 5-6 workers for 10years. Every year or two someone leaves or moves to other positions/locations in the company where we no longer see/work with them but I'm happy to stay. As I'm the senior I will organise leave gifts and there's a predictable pattern that the women either sign the card but never offer to contribute or offer but flake. I never have this with the men. Men are almost falling over themselves to do the right thing and not to appear mean or cheap. Well, gifts are usually in the region of £15-20 it's typically something small, card plus chocs or some small gesture which means divided between 4-5 it really a tiny contribution for each person. As it's a small amount when people offer but don't come through I just ignore it, but after years of this I decided to follow up on an offer and the response was radio silence. Now again, a girl says she'll pay end of week. It never happens. A week passes I don't mention it. Another week passes, I send a message "oh sorry I forgot to send my bank details", she says she'll do it payday. Nothing. Next week comes says she was going to give change but instead will just do transfer. Another week passes. I would never get this level of faffing around from a guy and I wonder if she's really that scatter brained or her offer is disingenuous and she's just expecting me not to call her on it. She's 30 not 70, has no kids or family to worry about. Maybe something is going on in her life, but don't we all have something going on? I even made it clear in message to others for collection that it's completely voluntary if they want to contribute and the message was in individual PMs not a group chat. Why has not one woman ever contributed? Do we need strong emotional connections to put our hands in our pockets now? Why is it so difficult to simply give because ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?

Being women it's quite possible they're under greater financial strain. [...], the point I'm querying here is that it's one gender standing out who doesn't.

You've answered your own question.

As for this particular woman being '30 not 70', whonis more likely to have spare cash? A 70 year old who's still.working, and getting state & possibly private pension, and may well have a paid off mortgage? Or a 30 year-old, who's likely to be saving for a house deposit while paying exorbitant rent, in the early stages of trying to build up pension and savings, quite possibly thinking about starting to save for maternity leave in the not too distant future?

My experience is that it’s generally men who don’t contribute to that sort of thing (and even more so- won’t put the effort in to organize).

These are sorts of things are completely unethical if they aren’t truly voluntary. You seem to be trying to coerce people who obviously don’t want to give. You should stop and just go with what you collect by whatever date you set. But also, you might consider that it’s not really suitable in your situation. If you have a team of 10 and people and no one stays more than 2 years, that’s at least 5 leaving presents a year people are expected to donate to. I think that’s somewhat ridiculous.

The pink tax is a real thing. It’s not just that manufacturers charger more for a pink razor than a black razor.

The social expectations on women mean women have higher grooming and clothing costs. Women also face costs related to menstruation. Women are more likely to need to spend money because of real or perceived safety issues.

Being a woman is simply more expensive than being a man. It’s much easier for the men on the same salary to find a bit of spare money.

If this tradition is causing you stress, let it die. It is not necessary to give a gift. You could switch to a card only approach if you still want people to be able to send their good wishes to the departing colleague.

I don't know where some of you get the impression anyone's being hounded.

The example I only ever messaged once and that was to give my bank details because she said she would. She has actually brought it up twice, twice more than I have. If she hadn't said she would, I wouldn't have messaged at all. Why say you will then flake? Then again say you'll do it later and flake again?

You all seem to have missed the point which is why is it always the women?

Shouty letters? 10yrs of disingenuous people perhaps? If you're going to chip in do so don't fake pledge banking you won't be called

30 Vs 70 is in reference to mental facilities.
We are all similar ages late twenties to late forties on the same wages. I still don't see anyone addressing why the gender difference.

Doesnt anyone read what they respond to?

5 people. Average of once per 6months. £2-3.

Again. Again. Again and again- it's not WHY people don't, it's voluntary. It's why it always seems to be women.

I'd love to hear your examples because I see the exact opposite. I'm not talking birthday, babies, baby showers, weddings- specifically work leaving. This is a small group who as I said, work together not independently. It's not some 20+ workforce spread over a building who disappear into their own little groups.

Edit resolved

You keep saying gender, not sex, yet you’ve posted this in the Feminism: S&G board where most regulars agree that it’s the sex you are that matters, not whether you identify as a gender.

Did you mistake it for AIBU?

In my workplace, only someone’s team & any other especially close colleagues get invited to contribute to a present if they’re leaving. Our turnover is quite low so it doesn’t happen that often.

1. Sex not gender.
2. Why don't you ask them?
3. Ask yourself why people don't stay.

I would never give money for a gift for a work colleague I'd known for less than two years and I would lie to an over-enthusiastic contribution collector to get him / her out of my face by saying oh yes I'll send you my bank details / spare change / premium bonds next week.
No doubt this is because my wondering womb lodged itself in my big toe or some such.

You are creating the faff, not your colleagues. Send one email saying x is leaving, thought it would be nice to send them off with a gift, if you want to contribute let me have your money by y. Then maybe a follow up email to say just a reminder, if you want to contribute I will need money by y. Send to all, never just individuals. And if people don't contribute, they don't.

yoy just don't know anyone's financial situations.

It's quite strange to not pay when one volunteers to do so.
Try a new tactic ..
Buy the card and ask who'd like to contribute to the gift.
Ask for the gift to be placed in jar on your desk, in cash, then ask if any of the donors would like to purchase the gift.
Agree to one of the people who often forgets to pay.

Involve the group more actively in the purchase and they might think they are more vital to the process.

Why do men contribute?
You male work mates want to be supportive of their female office manager. Perhaps it matters that they are not seen as disregarding you.

I’ve noticed that it’s always, always been women who organise the collections, the cards, and the gifts. Do you think there’s an element of gendered conditioning in that? Why isn’t it enough to get some kind well wishes on your way out the door?

I think what you’re being told here is to fuck off, ideally she’d say so at the start. But again with those gender expectations.

I’ve often read posts on here from women who take maternity leave, and while living on reduced pay, are financing 50% of household bills from their dwindling savings. And women who return to work under pressure to earn more than the cost of the nursery fees, because their long term financial security and mental health aren’t taken into consideration. Meanwhile their partner or husband’s career goes from strength to strength and he helps himself to her free labour in his household.

I know you’ve said that she’s in her 30s and has no dc, but it’s clear that there are some really serious systemic problems to resolve around money. Since you’ve found your way to this board, to gripe about £2, maybe stay and browse awhile.

I hate this. If I like the person a lot or know them really well I’ll buy my own token gift. Since July in our team of 20 there’s been requests for 8 people - birthdays, leavers, weddings, flowers for sickness, flowers for someone off grieving, donations to save the hedgehog fund, etc. Im a manager (as are half the team) but this would have cost £40-80 in the last 5/6 weeks alone.
Plus they insist on PayPal which I don’t have, and always send emails/ask when I’m in the middle of something and forget.
i wouldn’t care less if I didn’t get flowers sent from work if I was ill/lost someone/for my birthday, so I’m treating others as I’d like to be treated.

i realise this is all excuses but this is why I don’t contribute- you can’t do for one and then not the other.

i did however buy my deputy and closest work pal a present for her birthday.

I only work part time, am in the office one day a week and wfh the rest of the time. I hardly even see some of my colleagues and as I only work part time due to childcare I don’t earn much money.

I’m not always there when cards are passed around and I don’t always have the spare money to give towards every contribution.

My work do a lot of charity stuff too which is admirable but all these costs add up for me. When I worked full time pre children I gave for everything.

I already have to listen to plenty of comments about how cushy life must be for me working part time. I always remind colleagues they can work part time too, just have to put in a flexible work request and be willing to only a proportion of their salary. Think people sometimes forget you aren’t getting full time pay!

By an odd coincidence this old thread bobbed up in my notifications in the last week.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5194817-its-just-a-fiver?page=5&reply=139324086

97% team flake there.

Yep, this. Things are tight at the moment for us and frankly, £20-30 a month on leaving / birthday gifts etc is just out of budget. I absolutely dread getting the emails about collections, especially as my (male) colleague in the same role and pay band is so generous but an SMP mat leave and 2x childcare fees has wiped us out financially for now.
Stop hounding people, they’ll contribute if they want to, or feel able.

I play the same role in my organisation and I don’t find any difference between genders so I’m wondering if a group of your colleagues have taken exception for some reason - though you do state that people only stay for a couple of years. My colleagues give what they can/want to and people are usually generous. I never disclose how much people contribute and deal with it sensitively if I think people might struggle. I don’t automatically assume everyone who signs the card will contribute. We’re usually genuinely grateful for what people have contributed to our work, so I’d say our farewells are sincere.

The sex difference that you perceive to be existing in your workplace, is out of kilter with my experience of a range of workplaces. In my experience it is almost always women who organise these gift/card-giving events, and there is no sex difference in contribution.

So my best guess is that either you are operating with confirmation bias (ie unconsciously focusing those episodes that confirm your interpretation and downgrading/forgetting those that don't), or there is a specific dynamic in your workplace collections that may well be to do with your personality and how you interact with women vs men.

You do come across in your OP as someone over-prone to generalisations about women, and you irritatingly speak of women as girls. Perhaps you are just better at dealing with men than you are at dealing with women, so that when women speak with you they are more likely than men to be just trying to end the conversation by saying what you want to hear.
This might result in some women saying that they will contribute when in fact they feel too alienated to genuinely want to participate in whatever you are organising.

There is only one way to do a work collection. Brown envelope that goes around with the card and any contributions are anonymous. Never chase!
I do put my bank details on the email that says there’s a card for x going around. Some send a fiver that way.
In my place the immediate line manager usually sorts a leaving thing. I find women and men about the same when it comes to organising/contributing.

I only contribute to work gifts/sign cards if it’s someone I know well or like. I have no issue just saying “no”, to be fair, rather than saying yes but then not doing anything

I don’t think it’s the case that women don’t chip into work collections as much as men. Your post seems sexist!

At my work the line manager almost always organises the leaver card/collection and people can write a message and put no money in or chip in if they want.

Appalled that you’re chasing people for money! Not OK.

Also, the final sentence in your OP suggests that you are anything but sensitive and reasonable in the way that you approach your collecting:

Why is it so difficult to simply give because ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?

No, it's not the obvious right thing to do. Cards are fine, but the circulation of tat in a formalised, semi-obligatory workplace ritual can be just an annoyance to everyone, including the receiver. Especially in a workplace like yours that has quite a high turnover of staff. Some people love it, but many people would prefer to restrict their gift-giving to something more meaningful and spontaneous.

If you think it is an all-caps RIGHT THING TO DO, you are probably asking for money in a manner that pisses a lot of people off. Men might think about it less and just cough up, but women (because of all the socialisation that drums guilt into them about every flaming thing they do that isn't intended to benefit others or validate men) are more likely to SEETHE at the pressure that your clumsy attitude towards the collection puts them under.

Because of this socialisation, they are also less likely than men to feel able to tell you straightforwardly that they don't want to contribute. Hence the 'flakiness', when they make a people-pleasing (you-pleasing) performance of wanting to contribute to fulfill the demands of their socialisation, but then feel too annoyed to actually follow through.

I counted up the leaving, wedding, 50th / 60th, engagement, new baby collections and it came to £90. The year before that it would have been £150 if I had donated £5 per person.

I can’t afford to do that and it’s people I don’t have a work relationship with and the leavers I knew I wouldn’t ever see again.
If it’s someone I actually work with and like then I will but I can’t afford it now. I always used to. Must have paid out thousands over the years.

Used to organise a lot of collections in my job. For me it’s a personality rather than a gender issue.