Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

But it would at least make sense if people put forward a case for more mixed sex spaces and there could be a discussion about design and the problems involved in designing a safe, secure, crime free public private space.

On the other hand, arguing for single sex spaces that anyone can use is just baffling.

Perhaps he identified as Australian

Lastly, AGAIN, it's not just about safety. You seem utterly and completely incapable of understanding that it's about PRIVACY and DIGNITY away from the male gaze and presence.

Surely you lock the door? What do you imagine males are gazing at?

"I assume this is the crux of your argument about why separate spheres are bad?"

The problem with your argument is its a non sequitur. IE it does not necessarily follow that biological difference justify separate spaces. There's a step missing here & its evidenced harm.

As per the link I previously provided up thread, public bathroom laws changing don't show increases in assaults on women. And there's a reason for that which is men don't need 'permission' to commit sexual violence. All they need is to be alone with their victims. The problem of sexual abuse is directly related to the condition of isolation. Whether at home, on a date, in an an alley or at work.

You’re going to have to try MUCH harder than this in your attempt to best the women on this board. My first bingo card is already full and I’m halfway through the second! Thanks for the laugh at ‘I’m broadcasting from Australia’ like you’re some sort of public service announcement 😂😂

In practice I don’t think he would even be asked about his gender identity.

From what we have seen where ‘inclusive’ policies are implemented, the only criteria is to use the facility where you feel comfortable.

Interruptaron incoming.

There are many errors in your arguments.
Obviously there are criminals - the vast majority of whom are male - who break laws. But the laws exist nevertheless to try to prevent or punish behaviour we deem unacceptable for society, such as raping or assaulting etc.
No that won't stop everything, but it links in with the social contract as well which strengthens behaviour norms. So male levels of criminality still happen but society is trying to minimise rather than maximise the risk level. It would be a lot harder to do that without rules (self evidently)

"Lastly, AGAIN, it's not just about safety. You seem utterly and completely incapable of understanding that it's about PRIVACY and DIGNITY away from the male gaze and presence."

Our justice system isn't predicated on uncomfortabilty. It's based on evidenced harm. Surely you understand the logistic nightmare of catering to billions of humans subjective discomfort levels.

Reading back through, this seems to be a skin over the same old argument of 'males will attack females anywhere so there's no point trying to keep them out of certain spaces and women should just let them do it, even if they actively don't consent or feel unsafe'

I don't love the term but this feels very 'rape culture'

Yes, and there is a shit ton of evidence that male people are a danger to female people and that male people who claim to be women are even more of a danger to women than other males.

But the privacy and dignity argument cuts both ways. If women's privacy and dignity doesn't matter, neither does trans people's.

Unless you are a woman who only feels comfortable in single sex spaces, in which case you're shit out of luck.

"So male levels of criminality still happen but society is trying to minimise rather than maximise the risk level. It would be a lot harder to do that without rules (self evidently)"

But those criminality laws are already in place. Sexual violence is already a crime.

In the U.K. it is clear that many people want single sex services, and there is specific legislation that allows that, and in some cases specifies that it is mandatory.

If you think toilets or any other service should be mixed sex you really should campaign for that (but possibly best to start in your own country)

However, from this thread, it’s not clear what you want.

It would be very bad taste for a British person to make a joke about sending certain groups of people to Australia, wouldn't it?

So in your opinion, how many women assaulted in bathrooms is an acceptable amount? It definitely happens, so in your mind there must be a certain level where it becomes unacceptable enough to warrant the law changing.

‘However, from this thread, it’s not clear what you want.’

Oh I think it’s very clear what he wants.

What part of "trans identifying men have actually been convicted of sexually assaulting female victims in women's toilets in the UK" doesn't meet the threshold of evidenced harm, in your opinion?

If that's never happened in Australia then great, perhaps you could offer asylum to nice law abiding trans people.

Voyeurism is an issue, as evidenced by the many, many cases of men caught filming people in toilets/changing rooms.

Exhibitionism is also an issue, which can be part and parcel of transvestic fetishism.

All of these are paraphilias. ICD 11 explains how 'gender incongruence' must be assessed to rule out paraphilias.

Chapter 17, 'Conditions related to sexual health'

https://icd.who.int/browse/2025-01/mms/en#411470068

Exactly - blatant logical and category errors driven by dogma.

When your foundational position is that a male who thinks he is male is a male, and a male who thinks he is a female is a female, there isn’t much hope of logical coherence!

Some men have a lot of trouble coming to terms with the idea of spaces where they cannot go. Even when they have an equal but different space available to them.

If it were chip shops, id get it. But they are fighting to get access to every toilet and every sanitary bin in the world.

Two of the most common forms of sexual assault are flashing and voyeurism, overwhelmingly committed by men.

You really can limit opportunity to commit those crimes by keeping men and women sepatate when they have reason to be in a state of undress.

Similarly, while crime can occur anywhere, I still like to lock my front door.

"Yes, and there is a shit ton of evidence that male people are a danger to female people and that male people who claim to be women are even more of a danger to women than other males."

As per my link upthread research shows no increase in sexual violence towards women following changes to access of bathrooms.

And that only makes sense because men don't typically need permission to commit rape. All they need is to be alone with their victim.

"But the privacy and dignity argument cuts both ways. If women's privacy and dignity doesn't matter, neither does trans people's."

True. It's about harm. And the data shows trans women experience higher rates of violence & in men's prisons/bathrooms etc.

I just can't imagine rocking up on an Australian men's forum to lecture them and criticise Australian legislation.

Why is it you're so invested in lecturing UK women, OP?

umm... Even the Australian justice system is based on safeguarding.

If it was not for Gillard's wedging in of 'gender identity' in the Anti-discrimination act, providing single sex provisions would be very clear.

There is a significant difference between legitimate and illegitimate discrimination for safeguarding purposes. Legitimate means include sex segregation based on historical risk assessment.

Legitimate discrimination is allowed for safeguarding, this is not just 'subjective discomfort levels'. The basic human rights that people in the UK, and Australia, can expect from public toilet providers is that they are sex segregated for safety and privacy and dignity away from people of the opposite sex. No male person should expect that they have any additional right to have a toilet provision that excludes other male people. And no female people should expect to have any additional right to have a toilet provisions that excludes other female people.

It is important to remember that male people who have pubertal male physical advantages have been proven to not lose those advantages after any stage of transition. The UK prison statistics show also that this group of male people do not have the same rate of committing sex and violent crime as the general female UK population.