Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread

[fromorbit]

The new left party is going to have significant implications for gender and sex discussions on the left in the UK and in wider political debate as well. Lets talk about it.

Four of its prospective MPs are Gaza independents whose votes and comments in the Commons indicate a social conservative background . One of them Adnan Hussain has already got into a row on X with prospective members over his social conservatism.

The hilarious breakdown of the Islamo-left alliance
The progressive left has suddenly noticed that most British Muslims are not exactly woke.
This uneasy marriage got a reality check last week when a Green Party councillor and practising Muslim, Mothin Ali, appeared reluctant to sign a set of ‘pledges’ on behalf of the LGBTQIA+ Greens, Feminist Greens and other similar groups. The MP for Blackburn, ‘Gaza Independent’ Adnan Hussain, then waded into the debate. ‘It’s no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative’, Hussain said. ‘Is there a space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does other minority groups?’
https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/04/the-hilarious-breakdown-of-the-islamo-left-alliance/

The initial statement for Your Party focuses on poverty, fighting the system and Gaza, but makes no mention of progressive social issues, . This already signals something significant.
https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

Zarah Sultana on the other hand has already signaled out trans rights as a key principal in a recent interview which has received push back from others. Discussion here:

The Elephant in the Room for Zara Sultana’s “Your Party”
https://labourheartlands.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/
But here’s the rub. Sultana also pledged to “resolutely” advocate for a pro-trans socialist programme. She insists these discussions must happen openly and democratically.

That sounds fine in theory. In practice, the left has already shown itself utterly incapable of having this conversation without collapsing into authoritarian cancel culture.

Can the Left Have an Honest Trans Debate Without Cancelling Women?

For years, women who raise legitimate questions about the impact of gender self-ID on female-only spaces, or about the safeguarding implications highlighted by the Cass Review, have been branded as bigots and driven out of the movement. “Demonising trans people” is often code for “asking difficult but necessary questions.” If Your Party repeats this mistake, it will bleed support from countless socialist women before it even begins.

The truth is, many women will not get involved in this project precisely because of the Corbyn–Sultana line on trans issues. Others may hope the problem quietly goes away. It won’t. Nor is this a side issue: women’s rights are not negotiable add-ons to socialism; they are foundational. To ignore them is to build on sand.

TAs online and who are planning to join are already girding up for war, it is looking messy.

I can see a number of factions inside the new party who are going to make things complicated:

Muslim social conservatives - as mentioned they will be a major part of the party's voting bloc.

Old school Marxists who regard gender ideology as neo liberal capitalist identity politics and a distraction from class.

Realists who will see gender stuff as a marginal issue which needs to be sidelined because it is so toxic and unpopular with the general public.

Last but certainly not least actual left wing feminists who see through gender nonsense and are not going to be quiet about it !!

I expect fireworks over gender at the the party's initial conference supposedly to be held in November. TAs will attempt to make genderism a key principal of the party and will face resistance. Whether it happens or not it will be another nail in the TAs attempt to pretend the left inherently back neoliberal capitalist ideas like genderism. The big terfy mother elephant is going to be at the conference because women keep doing awkward things like existing and saying things.

Corbyn's position is going to be a focus in this because for all his occasional signalling on trans issues like stating pronouns and saying mantras it is not a core issue for him, and moreover he doesn't believe in it narrowly . His circles have long contained gender critical people who he has refused to cancel, because Corbyn for all his faults believes in open debate. So I think this could be a wedge issue between those around Sultana and Corbyn. There are already signs of disagreements between them over other issues like antisemitism:
Sultana: Corbyn 'capitulated' on antisemitism definition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79lr40rqelo

Its a silver lining in this shitshow to see people like Miller gunning for Corbyn for being a zionist. Let them all knock each other out!

Sultana says Layba Is DED

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2025/09/zarah-sultana-labour-is-dead

(I now cannot unthink her saying this in the voice of Violet Bott. We are probably all hateful bigots. BAD THREAD!)

Well I suppose to look at the potential market for a left-of-Labour challenge, the Workers Party got 200,000 votes last year with virtually no media profile, including a couple of near misses. You have to think the market has expanded since.

Positives for the WP: George Galloway's name recognition (everyone knows who he is), his links with Muslim community elders, energetic on the ground organising, a platform (economically left, socially conservative, anti-woke) with particular appeal to Muslim communities but potentially also non-Muslim working class voters in left behind areas.

Negatives for the WP: George Galloway's name recognition (it would be fair to say he's a Marmite character), GG being surrounded by antisemitic cranks, a Stalinist-Third Worldist ideology that's of niche appeal (if socialism with conservative aesthetics is your thing, there's always the SDP if you prefer Clement Attlee to Saddam Hussein).

Outcomes for the WP: Very high votes in a small number of heavily Muslim constituencies, but most candidates getting the bog standard 1-2% that far left candidates usually get.

I think it would be fair to assume that the appeal of a Magic Grandpa-Violet Bott party would be bigger and broader, but that gives a benchmark. And also the New Party will have its own contradictions:

• Student union wokelordism is a problem if you rely heavily on Muslim votes
• The cult of personality around Corbyn doesn't disguise the constant infighting around him
• The Trot sects (SWP, SP, Counterfire) are already heavily involved in setting up New Party branches, and we know what those guys are like
• If Galloway is surrounded by cranks and oddballs, Corbyn if anything has an even more extensive rogues gallery
• They're going to be in direct competition with the Greens, and even if Polanski is a bit of a meme the Greens already have a nationwide infrastructure and brand.

I'd be surprised if they do catch fire, it's not impossible but it's at least as likely that they inflict damage on the Greens without having a breakthrough themselves.

Adnan Hussain speaks: The House | To offer hope for the politically homeless, 'Your Party' must build bridges

Crucial point:

Your Party must do what it promises and be inclusive of all, especially communities currently marginalised by the left, such as the white working-class people of my constituency of Blackburn. A successful party will build a movement to excite the masses, and provide hope and a home for the politically homeless.

Key Quote

The founding of this new left-wing movement is being led in Parliament by the Independent Alliance, of which Sultana is a member. In recent weeks, Adnan Hussain, the MP for Blackburn, caused controversy after stating that “women’s rights and safe spaces should not be encroached on” and instead “safe third spaces” should be an alternative for Trans people. In a post on X, Sultana seemed to directly disagree with Hussain: “Trans rights are human rights. Your Party will defend them — no ifs, no buts.”
When I asked Sultana how Your Party will deal with these kinds of disagreements between its members and representatives she said: “This is a progressive, socialist party… my job as a parliamentarian first and foremost, as well as someone who is part of Your Party, is to speak up to the most marginalised voices.” She added: “Anyone who feels like they can’t subscribe to…these principals, then [Your Party] might not be for them.”

Sultana thinks trans people are more marginalised than anyone - Muslims, disabled, women etc. The clash with Adnan Hussain is going to be epic.

Sultana seems to be out of favour with the Corbyn lobby. He is similar to Farage in that his personality is bigger than the party. So it won't be Sultana who will win this fight as it looks like Hussain is the new favourite. He saying ' they're is no place for him in the party' is laughable. She's more likely to be sidelined. I suspect trans rights is one of those issues where Corbyn will say whatever to whoever as he doesn't much care about it. Not more than Palestine anyway.

I agree @RainbowBagels

Exactly, great post. You acquaintance sounds like the people I know. Sadly Blair could not tell the difference: 'arguably an 'all brown people are the same' viewpoint.

Sadly, it's the difference in some ways between the moderate Muslim Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who wanted a secular Pakistan with protections for minorities, and the fundamentalists who he failed to restrain properly, and who got Pakistan into the bad state it is in now after Jinnah died one year after it was founded. We still cope with those consequences today.

Interesting you mention the Muslim-Catholic link. It's hard to imagine in the UK now, but a lot of people in the UK back in 1947 used to feel more sympathy for Muslims than Hindus bc their religion is Abrahamic, whereas Hinduism was seen as idolatrous & polytheistic (notice how Hindus popular w Republicans like Vivek Ramaswamy mostly come from monotheistic branches). Churchill backed Pakistan partly bc of that, and partly bc he thought Nehru was too influenced by the Soviets (which was a bad mistake).

Just as long as they keep a strong line separating them from Hamasniks. We know a lot of uni protest about Palestine in the US, some of which I agree with, is worryingly being funded by Muslim countries who fund Islamic studies & similar & are v hostile to Israel.

I like Shabanna Mahmood. She has sensible views on immigration & crime, as well as gender woo in schools.

At the same time, she's more liberal than a lot of Muslims in that she voted for gay marriage. A brave thing to do when she & others like Javid received death threats for it.

Otoh she is a passionate Palestine supporter, I hope she has balanced views towards Israel & Hamas, but she does seem sensible otherwise, so...

Also she opposed assisted dying, which was good, esp as that Bill was terrible.

Sultana seems to be out of favour with the Corbyn lobby. He is similar to Farage in that his personality is bigger than the party.

People who say this stuff really have no idea how genuine socialism works. Corbyn's personality is nothing to do with it. He just happened to be the one holding the short straw when a bunch of left Labour MPs got together and decided to have a go at the leadership in 2016.

His biggest personality strength is probably his straightforward honesty about what he believes and tendency to come across as genuine and human, which is what set him apart from the nu Labour robots he was running against. Against that, he has many flaws (like all humans), some of which have been described on this thread.

Everyone I know in the demographic that will likely make up the new party membership would be happy to have whoever has the best qualities for the job as leader and no attachment at all to Corbyn as anything special, just as he doesn't himself. The supposed personality cult thing is really an invention of those in the media who have no other way of understanding why people would be drawn to someone espousing outdated notions like peace, justice, equality, fairness and dignity.

I personally joined the Labour Party at that time for exactly those reasons, to vote him in. But you can’t deny that a cult of popularity grew around him. And I don’t think he was particularly great at being LOTO. BTW the leadership election was 2015 not 2016.

I suppose there was all the Glastonbury and chanting thing. But that tended to be young people outside of the party itself. My experience of actual members was that they didn't care about all that stuff.

Another Sultana interview

There is no room for socially conservative views in a socialist left wing party. Period
https://x.com/JamesEFoster/status/1965406523301249408

Meanwhile Adnan Hussain is continuing to call for debate. Also pointing out he has a solid base as he won his seat as an Independent.

Adnan Hussain MP
Sep 8
Your Party must do what it promises and be inclusive of all, especially communities currently marginalised by the left. A successful party will build a movement to excite the masses, and provide hope and a home for the politically homeless.

It must stand by its promise to listen to members and allow space for open dialogue, debate and a decision making process open to all.

You can not both dictate positions and policy before any dialogue has taken place, and also claim to be championing democracy.

Adnan Hussain MP

Yes, this is one example of a working class community marginalised by the contemporary left.
Quote
Annette
Replying to @AdnanHussainMP
The marginalised native working class.

Adnan Hussain MP

I put my name to Your Party on the promise of a broad, inclusive church. A democratic, grassroots focused approach.

It appealed to me because this is how I won my election, as an independent, supported by grassroots, and able to speak the language of the people I represent.

People who won on a Labour ticket can threaten to push me out all they like. I took on the Labour Party machinery and won. They probably couldn't even win a by-election in their constituency with their juvenile student politics.

Sit down.

ouch

Piece in The Telegraph:

Gender-critical MPs ‘have no place in Corbyn’s new party’

Ooh does msn allow the Torygraph paywall to be breached. Nice one

There is no room for socially conservative views in a socialist left wing party. Period

This is why the Hard Left has failed to break through with the working class, who they are meant to represent. They traditionally have been socially conservative.

How socially conservative do you think Labour in general should be though? I feel like Shabanna Mahmood hits the sweet spot : she's a key member of the socially conservative Blue Labour faction, and she's definitely conservative re immigration, crime, trans as I said.
However, she's clearly not against women having important positions (one of the things she seems to want to conserve is the rights that British women have won, which shouldn't be overriden by Islamist influence). And she supports gay marriage.

Do you think she's socially conservative enough?

I agree about Shabana Mahmoud. I think she is pretty centre left and possibly because of her religion is socially centre Right, and I think thats her right. She is an example of the ' broad church' that we used to have in politics which it looks like Sultana is dead against. Its her way or the highway. Old style socialists and the working class were always more socially conservative and economically left, which is the spectrum that a party that wants to govern would have to be, and allow their MP's to be. I would say Islamic fundamentalists ( no matter how much Sultana and Corbyn want to pretend otherwise) are Hard Right, bordering on far right. To try and marry that with the hard/far Left identity politics of the current Hard Left is not going to work.

Interesting analysis here https://labourheartlands.com/socialism-or-liberalism/

Exactly. I hope Starmer can keep the Labour party a broad church with a mix of sensible views.

Interesting article note other Indy MPs are now weighing in

Mr Hussain added: “In this specific video clip, Zarah and others on the stage approach the topic in a highly divisive manner, risking alienating many minority groups. That’s not the approach I take.

“I believe we should build a broad church and that this is Your Party’s only real chance at success. We’re trying to build a party capable of challenging the likes of Reform; student union-style politics don’t hold the winning formula.”

Asked if he supports LGBT+ rights and same-sex marriage, Ayoub Khan, another member of the Independent Alliance who hopes to join the new party, told PoliticsHome in June: “My personal opinion as a Muslim is well known. You only have to look at what other Muslims believe, what’s taught.”

The Birmingham Perry Barr MP said he would not dictate what people do in their personal lives.

A couple more thoughts : I've noticed a trend on the more race-concerned elements of the alt-right (mostly but not all US authors) to say that Islam is inherently a huge danger, bad for the IQ, a virus, you get the idea. These kinds, who range from trollish school-bully types to intelligent but still pretty antisocial people, are hopefully never going to get all their ideas implemented, but they do have more influence than you might think.

I do think Islam seems a bit more prone to being interpreted to justify violence than other religious are, but I don't believe all their spiel about it being inherently a huge danger. I hope that if we get more people like Shabanna Mahmood & others then we can show that there is definitely a place for Muslims in the UK as long as they are fairly moderate. Sajid Javid was a good example of this in the Tory party & I hope we have more in Labour, rather than more Sultanas (or raisins...).

Aggressive messaging that there is no space for Islam at all is likely to add fuel to the fire of the terrorists who want Muslims to think Islam is in mortal danger. I hope those alt-right messages don't become widespread. What we need to do is chart the middle way on this....there needs to be really strong action on any hate preachers, Tower Hamlets stuff etc before it can grow.

I also think the key to moderating potential for radicalisation is the younger generation. Women especially but also men, even in more segregated areas, often want to integrate more than their parents or grandparents might. There needs to be a strong positive message that this is possible, but at the same time there need to be iron boundaries on radicalisation & sectarianism.