some parallels

[Manfreglory]

I've been teasing out this idea, that transphobia and xenophobia have much in common.

• both rest on 'you're not from here; your culture is different; you can't know what it is to have grown up 'over here'/had period pains/gone through labour.

• both reject difference or change in favour of sameness or stasis. 'You look and talk and think differently/you underwent a journey to get here/I can't fully relate to you'.

• both rest not just on culture but on biology: 'Your genes are different than mine/your genotype for phenotype A, B or C aren't identical to mine'.

• both are territorial: 'i sweated blood as a member of this sex/to make it in this society - who are you to come here and demand a seat at the table'?

• both are suspicious of the reasons for transformation. 'You just want the perks of being female; you just want to look up our skirts in the toilet; you just migrated here from Guatemala for financial stability.'

• both demonize, aggressively overstating the chance that the person has or will commit a crime. (Migrants: no need to give examples, just read the news. Trans people: 'you just want access to 'our spaces'' (i.e. the spaces where women/cis women enjoy their privacy from all men, cis or trans) so you can assault us'.

• both minimize or even deny, the need for the transition: 'No child is born trans/those parents were homophobic as the kid was just gay/trans women are men with their dicks lopped off/people should stay in their home country and migration is too dangerous'.

• both hysterically fear that the trans person/migrant will corrupt innocents: 'they will indoctrinate children in school/they will spread religious fundamentalism'.

Gender critical women: ask yourself if you've been radicalized into the new right.

'likely interested in women sexually'.

Your homophobia is showing.

If they have something that is supposed to look like a penis, they also have a very deformed arm or leg and probably don't want to get changed or wear swimwear in public either.

Perhaps you'd like to read MN where it says exactly that time and time and time again, because there are concerns for the biological women's safety.

But never let the truth get in the way of a good scolding.

Why would a female person who is sexually attracted to other female people be banned from female only spaces? Do you think lesbians should be banned from women's spaces?

ah so somebody who is tall, has a deep voice, a surgically constructed penis, pubic hair, no breasts, male clothing and a beard - someone who according to you is a woman but lives as and is taken for, a man (perhaps they are a father) would be welcomed into your change rooms? your "women-only spaces"?

I am talking about a person who lives as a man. Not a lesbian. If you insist this person is a lesbian (or a heterosexual woman if they are attracted to men) and you wish to deny the fact that they live as men, are called men's pronouns and think of themselves as men (which is a whole heap of things you'd like to deny), then it seems you've given yourself lots of good reasons to welcome a man into your toilet. Could cause a lot of confusion and fear ('"mummy why is there a big hairy man coming out of that cubicle?") but his genes...well, visible or not, his genes win the day. That is BATSHIT.

So somebody who looks and passes as a man, and possibly has male sex organs

Any woman trying to pass themselves off as a man/ thinks they are a man and has gone down the route of having their arm skin turned into a tube and stitched to a different area of their body does not have male sex organs.

In fact the only way a woman could ever have male sex organs is if they were literally walking around with an actual man's cock and balls cut off the man and shoved in her pocket.

There is no way to surgically construct a penis and a woman cannot become a father.

Not sure where to start with your comment about pubic hair.

You might find this helpful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zybbkqt/articles/zwb6xbk#zvktywx

And how predictable that you have just weaponised female people with transgender identities in your attempt to leverage access for a group of male people into female single sex spaces.

Female people are welcome to use female single sex spaces. If they have taken a decision to take testosterone to develop some male body cues, they might choose to not cause distress to other female people and find an alternative solution to their needs.

They do this already, they have told us they make these arrangements.

But please feel free to use them as political leverage. It is such an old tactic though. Did you really think we have not had these discussions directly with transmen?

You really are uninformed, aren’t you?

and shoved in her pocket.

I was slightly worried where you were going with that sentence!

"Pubic hair"?!! (Surreptitiously checks, just in case) OMG! I've got pubic hair! I'm a.... MAN!

A tube of skin sewn to a female groin is not a penis. It is in no way a male sex organ.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Hips, arms, hands, gait.

No way to change bone structure.

😂 Well, you need something to stick in all those extra pockets that come as standard in items in the men's clothing section!

The only way to live as a man is to actually be male.

Trans identifying women can sometimes pass more successfully as men than trans identifying men can pass as women, but in the majority of cases we can see perfectly well what sex they are.

Facial bone structure doesn't lie either. Its really obvious.

The Supreme Court judgment dealt with this very unlikely scenario. Have you read it?

Also, very much concentrating on single sex spaces (rights that affect men), and not sex based rights relating to reproduction ('blah, blah, blah, what rights do women even need?').

The Victorians knew what a "bearded lady" was. It's not a complicated concept.

As a semi-aside, who is the tallest trans-identified female anyone can think of? I can't actually think of anyone remotely near average male height in the public sphere, such that their height would belie their female reality.

Statistically the fabled "tall transman" must exist, but does anyone have an example?

Or I'd accept a single photo of a TIF and a TIM where the TIM isn't taller...

Female people have hips and a different gait.

But apparently, it is all about hair

You're good then. This often comes up - the common theme is, Yes, that's cool. Transmen don't have the same risk profile as transwomen. Infact, I "sent" the "message" you're requesting myself in a post of recent weeks.

Would you please, PLEASE stop tilting at windmills and instead address some authentic GC arguments like my lengthy p5 post, recently re-posted for your benefit?

right - so, welcome in your loo then.

Have you read the Supreme Court judgment? I think it would help you.

just to confirm: a trans man who lives and is taken as a man in every area of his life, not only SHOULD use the ladies, but would be very accepted in the ladies by all women as a normal course of events, from now on?

This is wrong on so many counts.

There are sadly, many female people now with double mastectomies, and well… fuck… pubic hair? Male clothing? (Are you fucking serious?)

You have just shown how misogynistic you are in this post.

And you seem to keep forgetting that a tube of skin attached to a female groin is not a penis. Female people can be tall and have deep voices too.

You have now shown that you rely on sex stereotypes to categorise male and female people. I am embarrassed for you, I really am.