NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Yup.

Don't know whether it's still on the list, but one of the plays on the SQA Nat 5 English specified text list was "Tally's Blood." It's not a text that I ever used, but ISTR that it was a reference to raspberry syrup used on ice cream?

going to leave the thread as its getting derailed, and there's not enough outrage at JR imo

I'm seeing Tom Davis.

I guess it’s maybe so something she can said can be used in submissions?

An interesting angle, but not a right angle.😉

So how many supporters did SP name in the end? With all the late witness changes and hearsay and racism charges, it’d be easy to miss that this is a big part of SP’s testimony today: nurses, receptionists, and at least one consultant all named as having objections to a man in the women’s changing room. I hope they were ready for this. Very brave of them to stand up.

HAHAHAHA you just reminded me when I went in for my C section I was so sick and nervous. The anesthesiologist nodded his head and pressed a button and suddenly I was nodding my head along too. Whatever he gave me, it was fantastic.

On my way out of theatre he said I'll see you again next year, and I said only if you'll be the father.

In my mind what I was trying to say was there's not a cats chance in hell but what came out of my mouth was clearly a result of the copious amounts of drugs he gave me.

What happened to the other witness from Benidorm chat? Are we missing one?

I assume it was worth Sandie appearing again to get the names of other members off staff mentioned who had a problem with the changing room situation.

Did anyone tally up the names? How many were mentioned?

The words were not her own, she reposted some vile ‘jokes’ and she needs to take responsibility for that and her continued use of slurs even if she personally doesn’t see the harm or doesn’t believe her neighbours object.

The TRAs however should not start the ‘guilt by association’ game as they have some awful folks who cannot claim that they were just reposting something vile for shock value. India Willoughby really thought he was going to get a TV pundit career out of saying he agreed with Trump (and his wall) and why don’t we put very sharp barbed wire in the channel to burst the boats and allow migrants to drown. Those were his own words spoken with a sense of delight on live television.

This one?

I'm guessing they backed out and if they did who can blame them after witnessing the last couple of days.

I can remember thinking DS was getting so much better, we’d had far fewer meltdowns at mealtimes. Then I saw myself asking him which cup to use, spoon in the bowl or next to it, milk in the bowl or in the cup…and realised I’d just got better trained!

He still eats food in order. And sauces are served on the side for dipping dry food into, rather than allowing dry food to get wet.

Said poster has a very similar style to another, IMO.
Yy to the housework!

The minimising of racism from some has been embarrassing to read. I couldn't care less what Great Uncle Albert or Great Aunt Mabel says or used to say. Racism in any form is not acceptable. End of.
While I agree that Dr Upton in the CR should be the focus SP and her behaviour has allowed JR to divert. SP should have been open and transparent given the massive support and funding she received. She has by her dishonesty moved the focus away from the core issue. From my observations racism is not just confined to just Sandie in her family.
I feel gutted for so many who invested so much in this. Whatever the verdict it will always come back to the unacceptable racism.

I've never heard any jokes about Lockerbie. I do think that geography plays a part - one of my husband's best friends was on a mountain rescue team and he and his dog were asked to look for remains at the crash site.

When the kids in my then classes spoke of Dunblane, they spoke of the teacher trying to shield her pupils. I think that they were trying to reassure themselves?

I do recall being asked what would happen if something similar happened in our school: I told them that it was my job to look after them.

Am behind again, just wanted to apologise unreservedly to @GreenFriedTomato for the yoga visual I conjured for the thread last night. Namaste 🙏

Was it Gina (who likes a drink) that pulled out of testifying earlier , possibly because she didn't want to be made to look bad ?
Are witnesses allowed to hear evidence given by previous witnesses? How would she have known that her colleague was made to look an idiot?

I have a child who used to eat wheatabix like a biscuit nursery asked me what breakfast he liked as he was not liking it or the toast they offered i said serve it in seperate pots they did and were horrified

Thanks all. Back for term 3. For me it has spanned three school terms…….catching up at lunchtime in the depths of Winter ……trying not to let me phone get too hot / battery die while on Summer holidays (Greece…got back yesterday) and it will now give me a start to September. By that time (Scottish school) I will have been teaching for a fortnight.

Happy to show you his death certificate - issued at the Vic

You're quite right. No reason to believe that poster over anyone else, whether they have a 3 post or 3,000 post record on the site.

So I'll base my view on the fact that in her 30 year career as a nurse at NHS Madhouse, AKA NHS Victoria Hospital, this woman has never had a single complaint made against her and had a hitherto unblemished record in her profession.

She holds opinions I don't agree with, shares seriously off-colour and inappropriate 'jokes' with apparently like-minded colleagues, and is painfully indiscreet, naive and (probably) gobby. But she is clearly able to function well as a professional in that environment and not allow her personal beliefs to colour her treatment of patients. Even if she hadn't shared those jokes, she would still hold the thoughts in her head. And no-one would be any the wiser, unless she allowed her beliefs to impact her work. Which she clearly hasn't.

With regards to the outcome of the tribunal, she'd still be entitled to single sex spaces even if she was a triple axe murderer. So I'm good with her winning the case and being awarded £££, even if I personally find her views distasteful.

Get in the bin with that nonsense.

Moving target much. If we all landed on 'convenience store', then that would be the next term targeted for castigation.

It's a shop. Typically (in a British historical context) on a corner.

Sometimes a rose is just a rose.

Edit: I'll leave my idiocy here for all to see

I now get the joke. Groan.

Sorry 😔

Fully agree.

General point- not specifically the post you were replying to: I think a few posters are relishing the opportunity to call “shame” or angry that she’s brought women who need female only spaces into disrepute. You are not Sandie Peggie. You aren’t accountable for her behaviour or opinions and she likewise isn’t accountable to you. There are many people who you will come into contact with who will have unpalatable views on a range of issues. It’s naive to think that most people will share your view. But mostly, you’re never going to know.

Whatever the verdict it will always come back to the unacceptable racism.

No, it won't. It will always come back to the fact that a man thought he could use a women's changing room.